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Post by Killix on Jun 15, 2019 12:40:36 GMT -5
Yep, I'd much rather have a delayed game than an incomplete game.
The industry has been doing this annoying thing lately where developers are rushing games out the door half-baked just to make some arbitrary release date. It all ends with an unpolished, buggy game devoid of depth and starving for content.
But of course we're still expected to pay full price. "Profit now, fix later" is the new slogan, it seems.
There are consequences to delivering a lazy, poor product and it's no secret that this very questionable decision has had a very overwhelmingly negative reaction from fans. I've already seen plenty saying that they've cancelled pre-orders or simply no longer want the game. I'm in that latter boat and I was pretty excited for the game before they dropped this dealbreaker bomb.
As someone who hasn't had a chance to play the last 3 generations, I was looking forward to not only remaking my favs, but finally getting to try out lots of Pokemon that are old by series standards, but new to me. But if a massive chunk of Pokemon are going to be absent, then I guess I'll just wait until they release a complete game. :I
"We love that you form lasting bonds with your Pokemon, so with Pokemon Bank we've future-proofed everything so that you can take your beloved Poke-pals with you on any journey! ... Actually, naw, nevermind." - Gamefreak (paraphrased XD)
Hopefully they see the criticism and rethink this plan to make Galar the worst region. X'D
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Post by Geo 🇺🇦 🌻 on Jun 15, 2019 12:54:59 GMT -5
I canceled my preorder a while back because I decided to go digital this time. I will still probably get the game. However, you do bring up a good point. If they are cutting corners here, what other surprises will I see? Is the game going to be buggy as well because there was also some corner cutting on quality assurance? It’s too early to tell, but earlier reviews will probably be revealing.
Sure, we live in a world where it’s a bit easier to deliver patches after the fact, but it’s always better to not have the bug in the first place if you can help it.
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Post by Blueysicle on Jun 15, 2019 14:11:44 GMT -5
The best we can hope for at this point is for them to develop patches that add in the data for the missing Pokemon to be released after the game launches. That's what happened with Mario Maker 2 after there was backlash over online co-op and competitions being with random people only.
Game Freak, however, has always seemed to been adverse to content patches, even though it was within the capabilities of the 3DS and more so with the Switch. (Patches for Pokemon games in the past have always been for bug fixes) We're just going to have to hope that they reevaluate their practices in that regard.
Deep down, I think I always had a feeling that Pokemon would eventually reach a critical mass when the Pokedex became too big for its own good. But like I said earlier, Game Freak should have informed us of this possibility a long time ago instead of stringing us along with the false hope that we'd always been able to hold every Pokemon in one game. (And also like I said, only a little more than two weeks ago was Pokemon Home revealed with the emphasis that people place a lot of importance into bringing their old Pokemon with them to future games) If they had told us years ago that, "Eventually, there may be a day where we can't program every Pokemon into one game," we would have had a lot more time to adjust to the idea and I think people would be a lot more understanding about this. But to reveal it almost offhandedly during the pre-release period of the pair of new games coming out on the most powerful console the franchise has ever been on is a disastrous move that pretty near destroyed the hype for the games. The only way it could have been worse is if they didn't tell us at all until after Sword and Shield are released.
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Post by Killix on Jun 15, 2019 20:51:43 GMT -5
The thing is... they totally can program every Pokemon into the game. If they could fit 800 mons (each with HD models and a set of animations) comfortably on an 8GB 3DS card, there's no reason why they wouldn't be able to fit the exact same stuff (plus the handful of Galar Pokemon) on a 32GB Switch card. If they really are struggling to fit them all in, then they have a huge optimization problem on their hands.
This is why I sense the scent of a rushed game. It all seems like they're cutting corners (or, err, Pokemon) for the sole reason of crunching to meet an arbitrary release date.
(and if they've only just realized now that there are "too many Pokemon" in existence and its causing development issues, well, uh... I don't know how that kind of thing could slip by for so long as they wildly inflate the Pokedex every generation. XP)
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Post by Ian Wolf-Park on Jun 15, 2019 21:37:38 GMT -5
Another thing that has been pointed out by other people on the web (and the early game footage itself blatantly states as well that it was not the final one) is that the Pokemon models/animations used is recycled from the 3DS games and the Let's Go series. Yet Game Freak is saying 'limited development time', which contradicts the observation.
Here's another thing that bothers me about the announcement. The Switch was announced just over a couple of years ago. That should have been more than enough time for Game Freak to assess the situation first as Pokemon was not one of the games announced when the Switch launched or even when developing the Let's Go series. Instead, we got that bombshell, approximately half a year before the new generation was set to launch.
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Post by Blueysicle on Jun 15, 2019 22:34:05 GMT -5
I'm aware of how their argument concerning the models and animations falls apart, and that they're being reused from Generation VI and VII. I know almost nothing about what goes into programming games and animating for them, but I'm just as baffled as you guys are that they could put 800+ Pokemon into the 3DS but not the Switch. (Though Killix , I'm not sure if I'd use the word "comfortably" in reference to how the Pokemon fit into the 3DS games, as -playing on an original 3DS at least- the battles could get VERY laggy at times in Generation VII, especially when there was more than one Pokemon on the screen. ) Not to mention that there are unused walking and running animations for every single Pokemon in the data of the Generation VII games, so it's really not even a matter of creating those for the Wild Area either. Their excuse of "balancing issues" doesn't hold much water either, as this is the same company that gave us the likes of Generation I Mewtwo, Mega Rayquaza, and Ultra Necrozma. Even then, what exactly are their concerns involving balance? The player bringing in overpowered Pokemon and plowing through the story? Then disable transfers until after the story is complete, like in Generation IV and V. The competitive meta becoming too unbalanced? Pretty certain that Generation VII banned Pokemon that didn't originate in Sun/Moon or Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon from being used in tournaments, so just do the same thing for Sword and Shield. I feel like when you have a game with as many playable characters as Pokemon, trying to achieve total balance is kind of a lost cause. I mean yes, they should still absolutely buff and nerf certain Pokemon or polish other battle mechanics when necessary, but there's still always going to be a handful Pokemon that dominate the battle scene, whether you have 151 Pokemon or 1,000.
Honestly, there's really no explanation that Game Freak could give about this decision that makes them look good. I don't believe that Game Freak is being malicious about this, as neither Masuda or Ohmori looked pleased about it in the Treehouse either. Even then, I suspect that at the very least there's a lot of burnout within Game Freak that's leading to bad design choices. However, the worst-case scenario is an unreasonable pressure to cut corners to meet imposed deadlines -as Killix says. (Considering that The Pokemon Company runs the other facets of the franchise that rely on a constant stream of main series games, I have a sneaking suspicion that they might be the biggest thing fueling this problem - though that still doesn't let Game Freak completely off the hook)
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Post by Killix on Jun 15, 2019 23:25:50 GMT -5
(Though Killix , I'm not sure if I'd use the word "comfortably" in reference to how the Pokemon fit into the 3DS games, as -playing on an original 3DS at least- the battles could get VERY laggy at times in Generation VII, especially when there was more than one Pokemon on the screen. ) Lag actually has nothing to do with fitting the data into the game! It's generally caused by hardware limitations or optimization issues (the system struggling with memory, processing or system load). This is why a game will run better on different hardware (For example, KH: 358/2 Days has lag and disconnection issues in multiplayer on the DS, but runs smooth on the higher-spec DS Lite) The data for 800+ Pokemon (HD 3D models, textures, shiny textures, and multiple animations) all fits onto the 3DS card with plenty of space left to fit... well, the rest of the game. (items, over world models and textures, battle animations (such as fire explosions and so on), various other graphics, mechanics and features, etc. etc.) I'd consider that pretty comfortable. XD There's just no excuse for it to not fit on the Switch, a console with well over double the specs and storage space. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by Geo 🇺🇦 🌻 on Jun 16, 2019 6:59:39 GMT -5
If a studio found out how the cram The Witcher 3 into a Switch card, 800 Pokémon is like nothing. That must have been one heck of a optimization project. XD. It can definitely be done. Game Freak must have been distracted by other projects or just totally burned out.
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Post by Killix on Jun 29, 2019 17:33:57 GMT -5
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Post by Ian Wolf-Park on Jun 29, 2019 19:26:01 GMT -5
Well, despite the fact that Game Freak is now in damage control over the decision, we still know that the games are being rushed for the Nov deadline, meaning that the quality of the the games will suffer in some way, probably through game-breaking bugs not unlike X and Y with the Lumiose City glitch, but worse.
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Post by Geo 🇺🇦 🌻 on Jul 1, 2019 10:58:04 GMT -5
Are we sure they know how damage control works? I feel like admitting you are rushing the game out is more damaging. It's a different story if they admitted it, and then delayed the game because they understood that fans want a good game.
Sometimes great games need to be delayed to actually make them great. You know, I keep pointing to Breath of the Wild as an example. Red Dead Redemption 2 is another example. I understand they are trying to make the holiday deadline, but a bad game can really damage your reputation more than missing the holiday season.
Leave the speed running to the gamers, not the development cycle.
Does anyone here still have their preorder or plans to get this game on release day? I had plans for getting it on release day before they decided to admit this was clearly going to be a rushed game. Now I'm waiting a couple of months.
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Post by Blueysicle on Jul 1, 2019 12:58:28 GMT -5
Geo 🇺🇦 🌻 : Uhh, I want to point out that Rockstar got into some hot water last year because they were forcing their employees to work under crunch conditions while developing Red Dead Redemption 2, so that's not really the best example to use...
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Post by Geo 🇺🇦 🌻 on Jul 1, 2019 13:53:20 GMT -5
Geo 🇺🇦 🌻 : Uhh, I want to point out that Rockstar got into some hot water last year because they were forcing their employees to work under crunch conditions while developing Red Dead Redemption 2, so that's not really the best example to use... Yeah, I guess not. I don't think Game Freak employees are enjoying the fact they have to rush a game out either though, and to top it off, it's not going to be something a lot of fans want.
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Post by Killix on Jul 1, 2019 13:58:06 GMT -5
Does anyone here still have their preorder or plans to get this game on release day? I had plans for getting it on release day before they decided to admit this was clearly going to be a rushed game. Now I'm waiting a couple of months. Forget preorders or release day, I'm not getting it period. The DS games were more complete, and half the price. This rushed disaster is not worth $70 to me.
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Post by Celestial on Jul 1, 2019 14:20:54 GMT -5
I will have to strongly consider if I still want to get it. I was considering getting a Switch just for this game but now I am not so sure. Given that this would be a huge monetary investment for me, I might easily pass unless it turns out to be really good and thus worth my time.
I love Pokemon but they seem to be getting rid of everything that I enjoy about the series in this game.
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