Religious Apologetics / What Do You Believe?

[Lex Luthor]

Come one, come all, theists and atheists alike, and every agnostics or spiritualist'ys in between.

The forum offers a large number of peoples from all backgrounds, and plenty more than willing to bring what they know to the table.

So why do some people believe what they do? I sure don't know, but I hope to find out. Care to join me?

[Gav]

I think there should be a fair warning that this kinda of debate can and probably will get tense. Religion is an extremely delicate topic, and it is not completely surprising for one to believe their view is fact and the rest as hoo-hah. While I do respect the maturity of the people on the form, it is just a matter of precaution and a reminder for people to keep their tongue and tempers in check.

[Stal]

((Thanks, Gav))

I get this question a lot, because of how different my branch of Christianity is from mainstream Christianity (none of the mainstream religious holidays, observance of the Sabbath and High Holy Days, no trinity, no heaven/hell, clean/unclean meats, etc). Everyone looks at me like I'm so naive or sheltered and brainwashed.

But this was the religion I grew up in. And within my church's history, especially the time period I was growing up, I had to face a lot of issues about doctrine and congregations splitting, sometimes an entire organization splitting into multiple other organizations, even though we still believe the same core things.

But why do I believe what I do? Because to me it feels right. I study my Bible (not nearly as often as I should, though). I pray. I've entered into this religion not because of being brainwashed by my church or my ministers or my parents with how I was raised, but because I truly believed it and adopted it as my own.

All the ministers in my religion echo the same sentiment, which has been passed down through the decades: "Don't take my/our word for it. Look it up and prove it for yourself." This was something that was essential when I was growing up. My mom and dad made an effort to help us personally study (and not just in the Bible, but through the use of extra-Biblical sources) our beliefs and doctrines and why we don't do this, or why we believe this, etc.

One of the other things that we don't do within my religion is baptize anyone until they're in their late teens (preferably 18+, though exceptions are made). The reason for this is because baptism is a symbol of acceptance of and a sign that you're commiting to something. Our ministers aren't going to baptise anyone who isn't aware enough of what's going on to actually make this choice. Which is why we go through a counseling process with our ministers ahead of time. That way we can get any questions we still have answered, they can evaluate whether we're fully aware of what we're saying to God when we're baptized, etc. It's a very one-on-one format and they'll never pressure anyone into making a choice.

The reason I relate all this is because I want to emphasize that for me, it truly was a personal choice through my own studying and reasoning. There are times I don't always agree with my church's official stance on matters (voting, for example), but I still hold true to the doctrines we have.

And why this above all the others? Well, as I said, I've been raised in this, so I'm familiar with it. But also through the course of my own studying of scriptures and so forth, this is what I believe is the right way is. Once I've found what I believe to be the right way, I can't turn my back on that to simply do what I want (even if this way stops me from doing things I might otherwise have done).

But there's also been the indications in my life that the way I'm on is the right way, more than just through the academic approach, but the affects that its had in my life and blessings/answered prayers I know have come from God. Too many coincidences in my life involving independent variables for me to say "There's no practical evidence for what I believe."

So I guess that answers your main question, of why I believe what I do?

And, as I always say, I'm more than willing to field any questions that people have about my specific beliefs. I prefer to do those via PM, though. Because if I start doing them in public, it tends to turn into a Stal v. other Christians v. Other religions style discussion (in the forum, I'm actually unique in these views), and other bad experiences that have come about from me discussing it in an open forum as opposed to a personal discussion with someone. So if you do have those questions, please, do contact me. But do so in a way that's asking out of curiosity and not attempting to set me straight or preach to me in any manner as I'll just ignore you.

[zhunter]

Attempting to follow Stal's elaborate beliefs of his own viewpoint I would like to follow with my own. They will be basic and not extremely ornate or anything so don't expect that. I'm giving you my facts on belief and everything.

I believe in One True God.

I believe in the Trinity of which exists the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I believe that when I die my soul will be judged. I believe that good works alone cannot get you into the Kingdom. Neither do I believe that faith alone can get you into the Kingdom.

I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of Man & the Son of God. I believe that Jesus Christ, born in Bethlehem & raised in Nazareth, was crucified by all of us (including me) and that we deserved much worse than what Christ suffered. I believe that he saved me from having to keep sacrificing sheep, doves, and goats. More important than that I believe that he saved me from going to Hell and making a bridge to Heaven for me. For all of us.

I believe that Siddhartha Gautama was a wise man in his own way. I believe that Confucious was a wise man in his own way.

I am a sinner.

I am also a Christian.

And I am saved.

[Lau]

Okay, whoa. I didn't even see this topic when I created mine. Should I delete it? I hesitate only because the title of my thread is a little more obvious, so it might get more replies.

[Psycho]

laurelinden said:

Okay, whoa. I didn't even see this topic when I created mine. Should I delete it? I hesitate only because the title of my thread is a little more obvious, so it might get more replies.

I'm not sure if Religious Apologetics and Why I believe what I do is the same thing, but since people have already started on that theme here I would say just delete it for the sake of keeping everything on one thread.

Maybe Fortune could change the title to include that, because I think he might have intended this for the same purpose.

[Enn]

Plus your topic is more patronising than this one, Lau. Atheist views aren't as needed, expecting everyone chose the religion they did for clear reasons they want to share, etc.

I'm an atheist. Just because I see no evidence in God or any other deity, but in the science that contradicts them. Anyway, if I believed in God I'd have to believe I was heading straight to Hell. Not a fun idea.

I can see why people would need religion but I think religion is just that- created to comfort people in their times of need.

[Dimi]

I am an Orthodox Christian.

I believe in the Holy Trinity as One and Only God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).

I believe in Jesus' being crucified for us, the sinners.

I believe that the Holy Spirit leads my Church, as I see miracles in it every day. In addition, I can find many monks who have reached the ultimate level of contact with God after many years (even decades) of prayer.

I do not believe in Pope, or that somebody can be infallible and always correct. I believe that the Holy Spirit leads the whole of the Orthodox Church and the method of voting on important issues is more imporant to me than a single person's decision.

I believe that my soul will be judged after death and I already know that I am a big sinner. So, I try every day to improve myself.

I believe that Antichrist will come, sooner or later, to drive people into sin. Therefore, I pray a lot so that I can understand that moment and I won't fall into the trap.





I'm sorry if I offended someone with what I said, but these are my beliefs. I totally respect yours though.

[Lau]

newnick said:

Plus your topic is more patronising than this one, Lau. Atheist views aren't as needed, expecting everyone chose the religion they did for clear reasons they want to share, etc.

I'm an atheist. Just because I see no evidence in God or any other deity, but in the science that contradicts them. Anyway, if I believed in God I'd have to believe I was heading straight to Hell. Not a fun idea.

I can see why people would need religion but I think religion is just that- created to comfort people in their times of need.

Mine is not at all more patronizing -- you are clearly misinterpreting my intention. I quote from the OP:

So why do some people believe what they do? I sure don't know, but I hope to find out.

Exactly what mine hopes to find out as well. The reason I don't need aethist points of view is that I already understand them.

But I don't wish to be redundant, so I'll probably go ahead and delete it.

[Enn]

laurelinden said:

newnick said:

Plus your topic is more patronising than this one, Lau. Atheist views aren't as needed, expecting everyone chose the religion they did for clear reasons they want to share, etc.

I'm an atheist. Just because I see no evidence in God or any other deity, but in the science that contradicts them. Anyway, if I believed in God I'd have to believe I was heading straight to Hell. Not a fun idea.

I can see why people would need religion but I think religion is just that- created to comfort people in their times of need.

Mine is not at all more patronizing -- you are clearly misinterpreting my intention. I quote from the OP:

So why do some people believe what they do? I sure don't know, but I hope to find out.

Exactly what mine hopes to find out as well. The reason I don't need aethist points of view is that I already understand them.

But I don't wish to be redundant, so I'll probably go ahead and delete it.

I was not misinterpreting your meaning, you've been extremely condescending to religion of pretty much every type in your debates here. And the point of a debate or discussion isn't just to get information for you, you should discuss your own views and let others with the same ones talk just as freely.

[Lex Luthor]

Well, seeing as how I made this topic, I might as well go ahead with my post. I practice pretty firm Sunni Islam, the sect one could have guess being pretty sensible, seeing as how my name is among the most hated by Shias (anyone else disliked by 150 million people? ;\).

I do things by the Book, and while I listen to hadeeths, I take them with a gain of salt as they are not the word of God. I’m what my friends and I call five-a-day Muslims, who pray on time, when we can help it, and follow the sunnah (‘Islamic’ law) as much as one could hope for. Being such, I don’t drink, gamble, eat pork or other unhalal food, or engage in promiscuous sex. I pray five times a day, fast during the holy days, spread dawah, do everything with niya (intention) for God as to hope for jannah.

I consider myself extremely knowledgeable on the religion in it’s entirety, as I give biweekly lectures to a youth halaqa for my Masjid, am an officer in my college’s MSA, and hold the position as the Muslim student delegate for our Student Government Association on Diversity.

[Lau]

newnick said:

laurelinden said:

Mine is not at all more patronizing -- you are clearly misinterpreting my intention. I quote from the OP:



Exactly what mine hopes to find out as well. The reason I don't need aethist points of view is that I already understand them.

But I don't wish to be redundant, so I'll probably go ahead and delete it.

I was not misinterpreting your meaning, you've been extremely condescending to religion of pretty much every type in your debates here. And the point of a debate or discussion isn't just to get information for you, you should discuss your own views and let others with the same ones talk just as freely.

That's why I said anyone could post. Even those viewpoints who I already know -- the reason I put a disclaimer is to encourage non-atheists to post by emphasizing that their opinions are especially needed.

And if you think I am condescending of religion in general, then you haven't read enough of my posts. I am just curious of the process. I have said several times that one of them could very well be right.

Anyway, this side-conversation would better be continued on PM if you feel a response is necessary. It's rather off-topic here.

[cyrillen]

Personally, I'm rather younger than a lot of you here, so I'm going with what my parents think is right, but just silently thinking, do I believe in this? We're not very religious, but we do go to a Hindu religious center - more like a spiritual center - every Saturday. We do prayers, and then we go to a class. The younger kids are taught more about the story aspects of the religion (good guy went to fight bad guy, good guy one) type of stuff, and then as you get older you get into the more religious aspects, such as why you're supposed to live your life such and such a way.

I'm not really interested in a lot of the theory of that, but what I enjoy is realizing that life as lived by people who follow the general doctrines of respecting your bodily (physical), mind (emotional), and intellectual (thinking) health basically do a good job of living life.

Look at everyone and realize that they're trying to reach as high, spiritually, as they can, and they're looking to find a way that they can tap into their spiritual energy, is basically my thinking.

[Tyrannitar]

I believe in Christianity. I go to a Christian private school and I rather do believe in God. There are people around me who are totally unlike the 'Christian private school' setting, but I'm always trying to shed random verses at them.

cyrillen said:

Personally, I'm rather younger than a lot of you here, so I'm going with what my parents think is right, but just silently thinking, do I believe in this? We're not very religious, but we do go to a Hindu religious center - more like a spiritual center - every Saturday. We do prayers, and then we go to a class. The younger kids are taught more about the story aspects of the religion (good guy went to fight bad guy, good guy one) type of stuff, and then as you get older you get into the more religious aspects, such as why you're supposed to live your life such and such a way.

I'm not really interested in a lot of the theory of that, but what I enjoy is realizing that life as lived by people who follow the general doctrines of respecting your bodily (physical), mind (emotional), and intellectual (thinking) health basically do a good job of living life.

Look at everyone and realize that they're trying to reach as high, spiritually, as they can, and they're looking to find a way that they can tap into their spiritual energy, is basically my thinking.

Age has no bearing upon knowledge; the Bible says this, plus one of Jesus's disciples was 14.

[hat]

I go to a private, Catholic school. I've been there for WAY to long. As result? I don't believe in the Old Testement, and I'm questioning the New.
I think that the bible is just a story book; metaphors that serve no use to us anymore. =/. I'm not downing anyone here, but that's what I believe.

Hmm. I also think that there ARE truths to all religions. But. I dunno. Somedays I don't even believe in God. Somedays I do. +shrugs+ I'm very wishywashy on the subject. Obviously.