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Post by Orginalcliche on Nov 18, 2004 20:31:17 GMT -5
Should their be grades in education? Should we group kids based on intelligence or based on age? Is standerized testing good or bad? Is there a better way to easily test and compare results between schools?
1) I think there shouldn't be grades in your education, at least not A B C D F grades. I think you should either fail or pass. The other grades I think are not nessarsary, at least not in the younger grades. Third and forth graders don't need to worry about failing or passing or getting A's or B's. I think you shouldn't start getting letter grades until you are in Middle School.
2) I think that there should be groupings of general age. In my state you can go two or three years ahead in math as you get older. I think you should be able to do this in every subject.
And my opinion of standerized testing is really unsure and I really don't have enough information.
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Post by Tdyans on Nov 18, 2004 20:51:50 GMT -5
1) I think there shouldn't be grades in your education, at least not A B C D F grades. I think you should either fail or pass. The other grades I think are not nessarsary, at least not in the younger grades. Third and forth graders don't need to worry about failing or passing or getting A's or B's. I think you shouldn't start getting letter grades until you are in Middle School. I don't know if this is normal or just something they did where I went to school, but when I was in elementary school, they didn't give A-F grades until you got into 5th grade (and then it was part of their trying to transition us over to the way middle school would be). They had a different system of O (for Outstanding), S (for Satisfactory), and a couple of others that I can't recall, and you got these "grades" not only on school subjects but also on other things like behavior, cleanliness, etc. Anyway, as for the grading system, it certainly has its faults, but the alternative Pass/Fail option is a bit like communism if you think about it, isn't it? If there are only two options, will anybody try to excel or will everyone just do the bare minimum required in order to pass? Why put in extra effort if you're just going to get the same result as everyone else regardless, right? On the other hand, you could argue that maybe some students would still choose to excel just for the sake of excelling and that might be preferable to excelling for the sake of a grade. UC Santa Cruz, I believe, does shun the traditional grading system. I think that instead of grades, the students get written evaluations or something like that at the end of the semester. Again, this might encourage learning purely for the sake of learning... or it might encourage a lot of mediocrity. I don't know. In my middle school, there were several teachers who all did this thing: whenever they assigned a project, you got a packet detailing the things you'd have to do to get an A, the things you'd have to do to get a B, etc. etc. It wasn't about the quality of work-- it was about the quantity. For instance, if you wanted a B, you'd write a report and draw a picture. Then if you wanted an A, you'd do that plus one or two other things. So basically, you decided ahead of time what grade you wanted and then you just did everything it said you had to do to get that grade. I think us kids loved the predictability of it. My mother, much to my chagrin, thought it was terrible-- an excuse for the teachers not to have to really put much effort into grading and putting more of an emphasis on quantity rather than making sure there was any quality to that pile of papers, that we were actually learning anything rather than just producing drivel-- and she went so far as to write a letter about it that was published in the town newspaper. I was pretty miserable at the time about her making so much noise, but in hindsight I do kind of have to agree with her. |
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Post by Linnen Malfoy on Nov 18, 2004 21:15:06 GMT -5
Should their be grades in education? My classes in college give you the chance for an A-F system or pass/fail. I opted for A-F while everyone who does pass/fail does JUST ENOUGH to pass. In the end, while the A-F scale has it's faults, it encourages people to be on time and do more than they should. I use my art class as an example: a girl made a poster and got a B-, a girl made WALLS (from stratch) and got an A. Most of the projects in the first set were paintings, most people gots C's and B's. The second set was a lot more ambitious. As such, the need for a better grade drives people to do other things. And really it's like the real world; grades are like benefits and raises. If you do the bare mimium for your job, you'll keep your job, but you won't move up. Working your butt off for a good grade pays off in school as it will in the real world. Age, simple as that. I know people who skipped so many grades and they simply cannot cope with the advanced ages. School isn't just about grades, it's also a complete system to realize soclizing and meeting people. Basing people off age then seperates them in the same sort of time so that they can understand socilization as they get older. Though it is good that some people can skip, I've seen it where the kids are so miserable and so alienated that they go back to being a big fish in a small pond. It depends on the kid. Bad. Awful. But what else is there? There really is no need to see which school is better; in the end you learn the same things. |
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Post by Tdyans on Nov 18, 2004 21:21:53 GMT -5
My classes in college give you the chance for an A-F system or pass/fail. I opted for A-F while everyone who does pass/fail does JUST ENOUGH to pass. In the end, while the A-F scale has it's faults, it encourages people to be on time and do more than they should. Oh yeah, we had that option, too. But it was either strongly advised against or else completely prohibited (I can't remember) to use the pass/fail option on classes required for your major, one reason being that having a pass/fail on an important class would make it appear in your transcripts as if you didn't think you could do really well in the class and were just taking the easy way out. We were encouraged more to use it for classes that you were taking for fun and therefore didn't want a lot of pressure to get a good grade on, like recreation classes, classes outside your major, etc. |
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Post by Orginalcliche on Nov 18, 2004 22:09:28 GMT -5
If politics didn't exsist a written evulation would be much better, I think, if you had some sort of overall grade as well. That way you would get a detailed reason of why you got the grade you did. I really am against tests that are multiple choice and the like, beacause somepeople have trouble taking tests, and blank out, have panic attacks, etc.
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Post by wolfofthewoods on Nov 18, 2004 22:18:07 GMT -5
If politics didn't exsist a written evulation would be much better, I think, if you had some sort of overall grade as well. That way you would get a detailed reason of why you got the grade you did. I really am against tests that are multiple choice and the like, beacause somepeople have trouble taking tests, and blank out, have panic attacks, etc. You can generally go in and talk to your teacher if you want to know the specifics of why you got a certain grade. It's not a difficult thing to do. About the test-taking -- some people freeze up. That just means that they have to still try as hard as they possibly can on the test, and work their butts off on the homework. |
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Post by Crystal on Nov 18, 2004 23:39:33 GMT -5
If politics didn't exsist a written evulation would be much better, I think, if you had some sort of overall grade as well. That way you would get a detailed reason of why you got the grade you did. I really am against tests that are multiple choice and the like, beacause somepeople have trouble taking tests, and blank out, have panic attacks, etc. Mmmm, standardized testing. I love standardized testing. . . . Am I the only person here who does? Basically, I would be a LOT lazier if it weren't for grades. I'm the kind or person who wants good grades because I know I can get it, the kind of person who's very competitive and the kind who freaks out when she gets a C (I did.) If it weren't for grades... I'd just sit back on my rump and do nothing. Also, like everything, the more standardized tests you do the less you're worried about it. Back in government/public school I used to do them every two or three months. It was nothing - it was a breeze, plain and simple. Now I only do them every five months, and it's become a lot more challenging because I'm just not used to them anymore. (Of course, that could have to do with the level I was at - in the former I was in primary school (1st-6th grade), and the latter I was in secondary.(7th grade +)) And might I mention that multiple choice questions are your friend. Much better than doing essays for your exam. *huggles MCQ* |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2004 0:00:18 GMT -5
Mmmm, standardized testing. I love standardized testing. Ya wanna take my MSA's in the spring? XD Yes...I really don't think the grading system is nessecary. A, B, and C are all passing grades. If you get a passing, you know you got at least a C. D, E, and F are failing, so if you get a failed, you know you got at least a D. It's better than seeing an F at the top of your paper and then your neighbor gets an A. Trust me, NOT FUN. |
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Post by Crystal on Nov 19, 2004 0:27:49 GMT -5
Ya wanna take my MSA's in the spring? XD Gladly! Ya wanna take my one-month-long, 21-paper, all-in-Malay SPM in November next year? We could swap! You're only one year younger than me! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2004 0:46:55 GMT -5
Ya wanna take my one-month-long, 21-paper, all-in-Malay SPM in November next year? We could swap! You're only one year younger than me! ... Actually, I have to lie about my age because of the new Proboards...I'm only 11... |
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Post by Crystal on Nov 19, 2004 1:19:15 GMT -5
... Actually, I have to lie about my age because of the new Proboards...I'm only 11... Never mind, we could swap anyway. |
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Post by Komori on Nov 19, 2004 1:37:51 GMT -5
You know, regarding letter grades and such... there was a story about that in the book "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance." Supposedly, in the story, the professor told everyone they wouldn't get grades. At first, the students freaked out, they didn't know how they were doing in the class, they were afraid it was a joke. I don't remember all the details, but in the end, they all become more hardworking, out of interest in learning. I think. As I recall, it wasn' too realistic.  I guess the author forgets that college students are lazy lazy people. |
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Post by Linnen Malfoy on Nov 19, 2004 10:09:21 GMT -5
I guess the author forgets that college students are lazy lazy people. I must say, I have no idea where that college is, because it sure doesn't sound anything like where I go to. ^_~ Hmm, on another note, what do you all think of the new essays that will be on ths SATs? Personaly, I'm rather against, some people can put complete garbage on a paper but have the gift of eloquence, and some can put very insightful things and yet have the writing ablities of a cow... Those SAT II essays are brutal though. I'd rather take 9328092384 APs again before another SAT II. |
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Post by Komori on Nov 19, 2004 13:25:31 GMT -5
I must say, I have no idea where that college is, because it sure doesn't sound anything like where I go to. ^_~ Hmm, on another note, what do you all think of the new essays that will be on ths SATs? Personaly, I'm rather against, some people can put complete garbage on a paper but have the gift of eloquence, and some can put very insightful things and yet have the writing ablities of a cow... Those SAT II essays are brutal though. I'd rather take 9328092384 APs again before another SAT II. Ah, that's right. I forgot, they said they were replacing the analogies with more essays. Ha ha. I don't have to take them anymore, so I don't really care. I don't like essays, per se, but I'm really good at them. I can make garbage look like I know what I'm talking about, when really I just wax poetic. ;D I got a 5 on my AP English test with a bunch of fancy writing. My English teacher only gave us essays to write all year. No tests, no quizzes, everything graded was an in-class essay. Needless to say, I am now a master in the art of the b.s. essay. ;D |
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Post by Buddy on Nov 19, 2004 15:56:46 GMT -5
The system of education has to have grades - it simply won't work any other way. To make it a pass/fail situation is generalizing the system, the ability to learn, and the students themselves.
Afterall, in this world, there is never just "pass or fail" - there are degrees. One can pass, yes - but what about those who can pass "better"? There are those who do the minimal amount of work to pass, and then there are those who work for the highest achievement in "passing". These students not only deserve to be rewarded more highly, they should be - because, in the real world, it is (for the most part) that way.
And, of course, like Tdyans said - it would ultimately create a Communism-type situation. If there's only passage and failure, where's the incentive to work harder?
As for standardized tests... Well, in truth, they really are nessecary (especially in an education system as splintered as ours), but I don't nessecarily like the weight that is often attatched to them.
Its asinine to create a system underwhich you can be an A+ student, do all the right things, participate in tons of extra-curicular activities - and STILL fail because you can't quite pass one test.
Like in Florida (Linny would know all about this I'm sure). You're grades really don't matter in the end - its about "The Test". If you fail their test (the FCAT (and I know this since I used to live there)), you automatically fail the grade - even if you happen to be an A+ student!
I mean, honestly - a month-long, 21-page test?! That's insane! No one should have to take a test like that! It just doesn't make sense!
Of course, we can't really have a system under which the tests have no weight. Where would be the incentive to try?
Ultimately, we cannot forget the main purpose in tests (and standardized tests in specific) - to measure a student's knowledge. The idea of standardized tests should be to know which schools are doing in poorly in which subjects and where. That way, we can learn what problems are where and why - and hopefully, fix them.
Somewhere along the way, I think we forgot that...
Anyways, that's not the main problem with the American education system. The real problem is much, much simpler - money.
EDIT: Oh, and as far as the SATs go... Its ironic they added this essay the year I plan on taking them! *grumbles*
I don't like it... But I guess I'll live with it (I mean, I have to, right?). I had always looked forward to the SATs with the knowledge that it was all multiple choice.
I'm not bad at writing essays, but that's not really the point - I'm just lazy and want multiple choice! ;D
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I guess the author forgets that college students are lazy lazy people.
