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Post by Stal on Oct 28, 2004 0:36:16 GMT -5
I tend to agree. My Hamster always knew I was the one that looked after her. And she loved me in her little hamster way. Her favorite perch was sitting on my shoulder on the couch.
*wipes some tears away from his eyes* Man I miss her.
I've had 6 pets (one was my sisters, one was mine, one was my brothers, and three were the family's), all who meant a lot to me, have to be put down. These animals...I can't believe they were soulless without intelligence. I just can't. It's obvious by the nature of some animals that God intended for us to domesticate and make pets out of. Dogs. Cats. Probably even Hamsters.
And I'd give anything to see these pets again someday. I don't know if they'll all be resurrected or not. I hope so. But I honestly believe there's something there. maybe not something I'd classify as a soul in my own terms (which is what is setting us apart from animals), but yeah...
Anyway, Linny...I thought you were raised Jewish...Sunday school? You don't have to answer if you don't want, but I'm confusled...
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Post by The Angry Artist on Oct 28, 2004 9:31:50 GMT -5
Anyway, Linny...I thought you were raised Jewish...Sunday school? You don't have to answer if you don't want, but I'm confusled... There is such a thing as Jewish Sunday school. I chuckled when I read the bit about the cat, but I didn't see how that was relevant. Since my talk of fallacies seems to be doing no one any good, I'm going to excuse myself from the debate now. |
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Post by Linnen Malfoy on Oct 28, 2004 12:12:06 GMT -5
Anyway, Linny...I thought you were raised Jewish...Sunday school? You don't have to answer if you don't want, but I'm confusled... Yes, you have Sunday school in Hebrew school. The first five years were on Sunday, but the last two years had classes on Monday and Wednesday. It's confusing, but yes, I was raised Jewish (even though we celebrate commercial Christmas). |
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Post by irishdragonlord on Oct 28, 2004 18:05:02 GMT -5
IDL's post is argued in a wrong manner, first of all. His first point even is a fallacy. "Where in the Bible does it say they don't?" you ask, IDL, but I shall tell all how this is an Argument From Ignorance -- not that I wish to imply you yourself may be ignorant. For the simple reason that the Bible does not say they don't have souls, they have souls? Your argument is an Argument From Ignorance in its purest form: According to such a fallacy, lack of evidence does not prove the opposite. And the next segment of Point 1 is a fallacy -- False Cause. You imply that He cares about us because we have souls and so do the sparrows. But perhaps God cares for the sparrows because they are living creatures that He created? And you conclude Point 1 with, "And WHY can't they be in heaven?" Again, an Argument From Ignorance. There seems to be a discussion of sorts over whether or not animals are self-aware in Point 2, IDL. Animals have feelings you say? Some very much so. But all of them? Take for example the emu, a large, flightless bird whose eyes are larger than its brain. At one point in my life I took a visit to a bird show at, I believe, the Wild Animal Park in San Diego. And so the trainers brought out an emu. After 20 years, they said, of performing the same show everyday that emu could still not find the stage exit, which had never been moved. Do you honestly believe that an animal whose brain is too mentally dumb to even possess a long-term memory can realize it exists -- a mental task that would require a life's worth of memory? Point 3 is another Argument From Ignorance. On a similar note, I would like to address Erika's argument. Erika, your one-sentence argument is the fallacy of Division. Humans are smart animals, but are all animals as smart as humans? I'd very much like -- if someone could do this -- to have presented before me a more convincing, fallacy-free argument. You have a fallacy which I will now point out, a very basic one: Assumption. By saying, "Where in the Bible does it say they don't?" I was pointing out the mistake in the general belief - the Bible says so. It doesn't, so you can't use that as basis. I did not mean to say it disproves it, but do not assume I did. Sorry for the implication. He cares about us because He's God and he made us. Souls are what make us... us, as far as I say. And regardless of souls, God still loves the sparrows. I conclude the point with a question. Why can't they? I want enlightenment here. Sorry for any errors I made, but also, do not Assume.  |
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White Chaos
Occasional Commenter
Come free us, from a thousand years of darkness.
Posts: 41
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Post by White Chaos on Nov 4, 2004 20:43:56 GMT -5
Yes, to me, animals have souls.
I mean, why not?
Animals are living things, they can think and feel. There are some animals that are complex enough to feel emotions like grief. (Here I'm talking about elephats. At least this is how I know it to be.)
Besides, unless there is a shape-shifter among your ranks, which I don't doubt, no one has seen the world from the eyes of an animal. Who knows what they see and what they think.
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