Abortion Revisited

[Smiley]

I know we have had debates on the subject in the past, but as my views have recently changed, I'd like to see your opinions.

I used to be pro-choice, believing women should be able to choose for themselves whether or not their child should be aborted. Now I am pro-life, however - abortions should not be used except in extreme circumstances (rape cases, or the mother is at risk).

Many pro-lifers describe abortion as cold-blooded murder. I think that's a tad overboard, but to kill an unborn fetus is taking the life away from a human being, so I see where they are coming from. However, I am opposed to abortion because you are ridding a child - a living fetus who has the chance of birth - of a chance at life, usually because of your own mistakes. The child should not be held responsible for that.

Adoption is always available, and is a much more humane choice for a woman who cannot raise her child. I plan to adopt at least one child when I am older, to help support those brave women who decide to let their children live and carry them out to term.

I, personally, would never be able to live with myself knowing that I killed my baby. Even though others may be comfortable with it, I don't think that the baby should be held accountable for its mother's actions. This is what I believe.

What are your thoughts?

[Deleted]

I can understand you wanting abortion if you were raped, you're like, 13 and you want to be a doctor or a lawyer, ect. I'm pro-choice. Women have the rights to decide whether they want the baby to live or not. But if you're, oh, say 40, have a husband and 3 children, live in a glourious house, and you get pregnant, but don't want the baby, you should put it up for adopition instead of abortion.

My 3 cents.

[Luna]

Erika said:

I can understand you wanting abortion if you were raped, you're like, 13 and you want to be a doctor or a lawyer, ect. I'm pro-choice. Women have the rights to decide whether they want the baby to live or not. But if you're, oh, say 40, have a husband and 3 children, live in a glourious house, and you get pregnant, but don't want the baby, you should put it up for adopition instead of abortion.

My 3 cents.

My sentiments exactly.

[sollunaestrella]

I'm pro-life as well.

You see, women DO have a choice - at the moment of conception. Of course, if it is a case of rape or it endangers the mother's well-being in an extreme way, I can understand an abortion being performed. But otherwise, it's unfair to take life - and the chance of life - away from a fetus that can't defend itself.

But has anyone ever heard of Glenn Beck? He's a conservative AM radio show host - but he very recently adopted a child born to a 15-year-old girl. If that 15-year-old girl had gotten an abortion, I would have understood completely. Because she was the victim of a date rape drug at a party - someone slipped it into her drink without her knowing. And she was raped and, as a result, got pregnant.

But even though I don't know her, I admire her with all my heart. Because she had the child anyway - she didn't give up the baby's life even though it wasn't her choice or mistake that brought it into being. I really admire her - I don't know if I could do that if I were in her place, as pro-life as I am.

And I agree with Smiley - there is the option of adoption, which that girl had made. And I don't buy anything about "women's reproductive rights" - were abortion made illegal right now, I would still have them. I have the right to a choice - whether to have sex or not in the first place. That's a right if I ever heard one.

And there are still all kinds of forms of birth control. Of course they're not guaranteed to work 100% of the time, but if you want to have sex that much in the first place without getting pregnant, you're taking a heck of a big risk no matter what.

Yeah. So... that was a ramble, but... yeah.

[Smiley]

SLE said:

But has anyone ever heard of Glenn Beck? He's a conservative AM radio show host - but he very recently adopted a child born to a 15-year-old girl. If that 15-year-old girl had gotten an abortion, I would have understood completely. Because she was the victim of a date rape drug at a party - someone slipped it into her drink without her knowing. And she was raped and, as a result, got pregnant.

But even though I don't know her, I admire her with all my heart. Because she had the child anyway - she didn't give up the baby's life even though it wasn't her choice or mistake that brought it into being. I really admire her - I don't know if I could do that if I were in her place, as pro-life as I am.

I admire her as well - that takes a lot of strength and love for the child.

I actually know someone who's mother was a rape victim at 15, who decided to give birth to the child and give it up for adoption. It really makes it personal when you know someone who was almost aborted, especially someone that you trust and respect deeply. To think that this person might not even exist if her mother had an abortion... a whole person with thoughts, hopes, dreams, and has an inspiring effect on people. All of that would be gone.

And then I wonder if there are people who would be here, but aren't because of an abortion. Friends, enemies, it doesn't matter... they're all people and deserve to live.

I hope I'll never have to make the choice at 15 of whether or not my child should live or die, but if I do, I hope I will have the strength to let it live.

And I definitely agree with your views on women's rights - I HAVE rights. If I was the one who decided to have sex, then it was my right to choose, and I must face the consequences.

That's about as fair as it gets.

[Kiddo]

According to our laws murder is illegal. It is because of this that we can prosecute those that take anothers lives. It also gives protection to mothers as someone who damages the mother in such a way that the baby dies can be charged for murder. By defined an unborn baby as a life we are able to protect those in society that would otherwise be robbed of something precious to them by violence.

On the other hand, we can turn around and dispose of that very same baby and call it abortion. Now, in order to do so and remain within the bounds of our laws, we must label the baby as a non-human, thereby placing it in the 'posessions' catagory.

Calling a baby both would be impossible. It is quite illegal to own another human being - I believe the word for that is slavery.

So we have two situations.

The baby is a human. Mothers are protected from violence against their child and abortion is murder. The child has the same rights as you and I.

The baby is a posession. Mothers own their baby and can do with it as they wish. Killing a baby would be the same as vandelism as the baby has no rights.

Right now we seem to have a system of 'ownership' in which the baby is only a human if the mother wants it. If not, it can be tossed in the trash. I think it is extreme arrogance to assume that you can own another person. Furthermore, it seems to be in violation of some standards that were established earlier in US history. But abortion has always been a fuzzy subject because the pro-abortion movement will not admit the baby is a person.

Just some food for thought on the legalistics of abortion. I'll try to stay away from this thread from now on. As a woman old enough to have a baby and intending to someday get married and have children this topic is a rather hard one. The thought that I could chose death for my future children is one that makes me cry, every time, without fail. I love them very much and to think that I even have the option of killing them is like ripping my heart out and shredding it.

[Crystal]

I am very much anti-abortion. I don't give a twit about women's reproductive rights and whether abortion effects them or not.

You see, my father was adopted. His mother was a very poor woman, and the woman who adopted him (my now grandmother) was barren. I have no links whatsoever with my biological grandparents and for all I know my dad might have been born out of wedlock or rape. I'm fairly sure that, given the chance and if abortion wasn't illegal here or had been invented in a safe way, my dad would certainly have been aborted. It wouldn't be worth it carrying a child for nine months simply to exchange him for a little money later.

It's easy to say that abortion should be allowed and to stand up and look impressive and claim that women have 'reproductive rights'. But when you know that YOU wouldn't have existed if it was.... your views change quite a bit. I want everyone who wishes that me and my entire family here had never existed to stand up and raise your hand (virtually, of course).

Someone once said (can't be bothered to look up who and I'm paraphrasing here): "All the people who are for abortion are already born." It's quite intresting and oddly true.

[aakfish]

I don't think it is right to bring a baby in to the world who won't be loved. All though if I was a woman I would never consider abortion, I do think it is the womans right to choose if they want an abortion.

[jdb1984]

I am against abortion as well. Consider this senerio:

A teenager at a dance heads to the bathroom and returns about half an hour later. In that time, she bore a son, broke it's neck, and threw it in the trash. She was charged with murder.

So, if it's murder outside the womb, shouldn't it be considered murder inside the womb as well?

[Oily]

I'm pro-choice, to a point. I think for rape, likelihood of serious injury to mother or baby, or for serious disabilities, abortion is fine. I also think for social reasons up to a certain time period. I don't believe life begins at conception, but I think it's not so good to abort a foetus when they're older, begin to smile, have features etc etc.

The whole "It's a life that could have been" or "I might not have been here" doesn't really sway me. Every minute you breathe that you're not making babies, you're technically denying potential children a right to life. It's logical, but it's also stupid. There's millions and millions of chances in life that all of us might not have been here. Abortion changes little.

Frankly, I would have little qualms over aborting an early embryo. It's easy to say "Just carry the child and then put it up for adoption" but not so easy to do. The stigma of nine months getting more and more pregnant, the pain of the birth, the pain of having your child taken away from you. But an early stage abortion - it's not even anything yet. And imagine carrying a child after you'd been raped. Looking at your child, and seeing the features of your rapist? It makes me shiver.

The key thing is not seeing it as anything more than what it is - a bundle of cells, barely functional. It's when it becomes more baby like that I dislike abortion.


I do think there should be more discussion first on options, a stronger contraception message in schools and stricter limits though.

[Luna]

Oily, those are my same exact views. ^_^
A fetus is a parasite to the mother. The definition of parasitism is a form of symbiosis in which one organism benefits and the other is harmed. If a fetus doesn't get the calcium it requires, it steals it from the mothers teeth and bones. Imagine in a third world country where an already malnourished woman becomes pregnant. The child would take any nutrients the mother had regardless of her health; her bones would become feeble and her teeth would crack, and the stress of labor in that condition would kill her.
When a child has noticible features it shouldn't be aborted unless there's something wrong with it such as severe mental damage or deformity, or harmful to the mother. It's nothing more than cells early on, it's not a living, breathing person, it's just cells.

[Smiley]

Oily said:

Frankly, I would have little qualms over aborting an early embryo. It's easy to say "Just carry the child and then put it up for adoption" but not so easy to do. The stigma of nine months getting more and more pregnant, the pain of the birth, the pain of having your child taken away from you. But an early stage abortion - it's not even anything yet. And imagine carrying a child after you'd been raped. Looking at your child, and seeing the features of your rapist? It makes me shiver.

I know this is a tender subject, but I just want to say that I'd rather let my child live than kill it because I was afraid of what it would look like. I'll love my child no matter what, and as long as it is raised right, by me or its adopters, it will never become what its father was. As long as I see who my child is, the beautiful being I was blessed with, I will never see the rapist in its face.

Kiddo made a very interesting point - if abortion is not murder, that means that a fetus is a possession and not a human being. If it is a possession, then a person who kills a pregnant person is charged with the same crime as a person who kills a non-pregnant person. To me, killing a pregnant woman is double homicide. Abortion, therefore, is murder (unless it has justifiable cause, and we've already discussed that).

And just to clarify - I don't think that something is a human until it is a fertilized egg, and has all the parts it needs in order to fully develop. Basically, conception is the start of life.

[irishdragonlord]

My views:

No matter what, women have a choice. You slept with the man, choice made.

As far as I'm concerned, agreeing to have sex (and, isn't a synonym for that reproduction?) means you agree to be old enough and mature enough to have a child.

Now, the only times my views change are if:
-The baby is deformed to the point it will definitely die young (not that I think this is a fantastic reason)
-The baby will most likely be born dead due to mutation
-The woman was raped

I've stated what most of you already said, but I still wanted my views across ^-^

Also, however, I say, if a girl has a child, the father should have EQUAL responsibility and not a whit less. If he doesn't, I don't know how, but it should be somewhat of a crime. You don't get someone pregnant and forget about it.

[Crystal]

Oily said:

I'm pro-choice, to a point. I think for rape, likelihood of serious injury to mother or baby, or for serious disabilities, abortion is fine. I also think for social reasons up to a certain time period. I don't believe life begins at conception, but I think it's not so good to abort a foetus when they're older, begin to smile, have features etc etc.

The whole "It's a life that could have been" or "I might not have been here" doesn't really sway me. Every minute you breathe that you're not making babies, you're technically denying potential children a right to life. It's logical, but it's also stupid. There's millions and millions of chances in life that all of us might not have been here. Abortion changes little.

Frankly, I would have little qualms over aborting an early embryo. It's easy to say "Just carry the child and then put it up for adoption" but not so easy to do. The stigma of nine months getting more and more pregnant, the pain of the birth, the pain of having your child taken away from you. But an early stage abortion - it's not even anything yet. And imagine carrying a child after you'd been raped. Looking at your child, and seeing the features of your rapist? It makes me shiver.

The key thing is not seeing it as anything more than what it is - a bundle of cells, barely functional. It's when it becomes more baby like that I dislike abortion.


I do think there should be more discussion first on options, a stronger contraception message in schools and stricter limits though.

Ummm, actually, there's no way to abort an early embryo. The fetus has to be at least three months old before it's big enough to be aborted. I think by then the nerve cells have already developed, so it can actually FEEL what's happening to it.

Read that from the papers. It was a girl who wanted an abortion, but was only two months pregnant and was told she had to wait for a month first.

[Crystal]

Guest-Crystal said:

Ummm, actually, there's no way to abort an early embryo. The fetus has to be at least three months old before it's big enough to be aborted. I think by then the nerve cells have already developed, so it can actually FEEL what's happening to it.

Read that from the papers. It was a girl who wanted an abortion, but was only two months pregnant and was told she had to wait for a month first.

Or was it two months old? Nah, I think three months. Somewhere around that time frame anyways. My brain isn't working too well 'cause I'm sneaking on after dark.

And the whole abortion procedure disgusts me anyway. Some of my schoolfriends were discussing it over lunch once. Trust me, it's a BAD time to talk about that.