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Post by Lex on Jul 20, 2023 12:43:56 GMT -5
Uhhh... hmm. Maybe I'm just super far outside of the social media sphere, but this kinda seems like a lot for an unpaid "ambassador" program?
I've worked at companies that had "product ambassadors", and pretty much all they did was hype the brand at events or on their personal pages. Sometimes they'd earn kickbacks for referred sales or something.
But they're offering the equivalent of $10 a month for what sounds like SHOULD be a properly paid marketing/community management position...
That feels extremely off to me, but maybe this is some sort of new normal that I've just not been engaging with. If it is, then I guess I'm kinda glad I've been living under a rock when it comes to this sort of stuff...
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Post by Huntress on Jul 20, 2023 12:58:57 GMT -5
I might be missing something and/or getting cynical in my old age, but that just sounds like unpaid intern with extra steps.
The cynic in me (she's quite vocal these days) is also wondering if the higher-ups have noticed that places like Jellyneo seem to be doing more with the community - updates, tools, events, player engagement, etc - than the original site has been for a while now and is seeking a covert way to get a piece of that unpaid intern pie.
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Post by Stephanie (swordlilly) on Jul 20, 2023 13:12:12 GMT -5
Maybe it's meant to be a kind of mutual sponsorship, like, the streamer doesn't get paid by the developers, they get paid by Twitch or whatever platform they're building an audience on. I've seen games do this before.
But the problem is, the core game has to actually be good for this to work. When people listen to the marketing and go to Neopets.com, they have to actually have fun playing. Otherwise they just won't stick around.
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Post by Carolyn on Jul 20, 2023 18:43:21 GMT -5
Erm, I'm wondering how many hours they are hoping for in return for 1000NC. If it's like 1-2 hours a week, then... maybe. Like just a little side thing. But if its something a person is going to have to devote 10-20 hours a week to and stay on top of then yes, they should be paying those people.
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Post by Gelquie on Jul 20, 2023 19:00:09 GMT -5
I also kind of raise an eyebrow at the fact that they only offer in-game currency for it (and only per month), when it sounds like content where I would expect actual payment. Social Media Manager (as it sounds like) is an actual job that people are generally paid for. And when it comes to part time jobs, sometimes there is no minimum.
I guess it would indeed depend on how much time is spent on it. If it's on the side and not more than a couple hours a week, fine, I could count that as volunteering. But I have a sinking feeling that that's not all it will be.
Then again, there are already people eager and gung ho about site content who are doing this for free. I could see them trying to include those people. It's just... I dunno. The fact that they're asking for real stuff you'd find in a job description and paying a small amount of in-game currency per month is just questionable to me.
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Post by Duke Pikachu on Jul 20, 2023 20:09:06 GMT -5
Let's look through some of these ambassador duties: AND immediately red flags. Creating official content? In what capacity? If you're going to ask "hey we're going to need this kind of artwork by next week" than that's a job; hire an artist. If you're asking for fanart, music/song/poem, and just misc Twitter/Facebook posts about certain Neopet experiences; is that really something you need to make someone an ambassador to do? The ONLY thing I can think of which would make this not-as-sketch is if they mean you to be the person who encourages others to make fanart, music/song/poem, and misc Twitter/Facebook posts; like putting together a Drawtober. Now, once again, something like this feels like they should just hire a person for, for example SEGA has a small team managing the Sonic Twitter Account who make amusing posts. But I guess if they want to bring in the community angle, this is a position they decide some users could fulfill that won't take up too much of their time. That is, if this is what they mean; also would you be giving the keys to the official Neopets Twitter/Facebook are is the user using a personal one (either existing or one they'll create) to do the awareness bringing? So, if I'm understanding this one, pretty much this is what we are thinking a user ambassador would be mainly doing: Gathering ideas/comments/complaints from the user community directly, organizing it, and informing a staff member. Alright, so here is the concerns with this one: 1. How exactly are ambassadors being picked? Because the information that's given to the Staffers will be very based on the ambassador. You would like someone like members of JN and other fansites who want to make the site better and already have users who trust them & their decision making. Of course, this is the internet, so there's also trolls who would just LOVE to become an ambassador just to mess with the Staffers and the Neo community by giving bad info & ideas. Heck, and while I trust JN, even then there's different egos at play where one user may think one idea is good & pass it on but another who would think its bad and not mention it in their report. They really got to be careful who they pick. 2. Once again, how much time are you expecting them to work on this? Like, say they create a Neoboard to gather ideas for new PB Colours, are they expected to monitor that board the entire time its up? Are they to create it, let it runs it course, then come back a few hours later to gather all the ideas THEY think is suitable? Would they have admin powers? If so, for just that board or could they go to any board and delete/change posts? ... Like on Twitter/Facebook? That goes back to the first point and the issues there. On the official Twitter/FB? On their personal own? Like, if its their personal & own, unless its fansite you're working with, it's not going to reach the mass general audience. Also, what's the difference between "community events" and "in-game events"? More specifically, what are community events? Are they what we discussed above, hosting a contest on Twitter/Facebook? And who are these ambassadors exactly engaging & promoting to? Their friends? To other franchise communities (because that won't be annoying...)? What social channels do you expect the average user to have that'll it'll make a major difference? ...... WHERE? On the site itself? Twitter/Facebook? Also specifics on what sounds like things that TNT should be overseeing directly? Will these contests have prizes? what do you mean by "community-centric events"? I'm not being pedantic here, I don't know what they mean for a term they keep using: "Community event"; which they made a point above is different from an "in-game event". Wait, didn't we go over that point above? The whole "Ideating" thing? That wasn't what that was about? Then what was it about? Are you just separating gathering ideas and gathering feedback/concerns as two different tasks? Yeah, let's also a take close look at the "rewards" here. One of them being: Doing what you're being approved to do. I would certainly hope that, if you're making me an ambassador, that yes I would indeed be talking with TNT to discuss ideas and feedback which I've gathered. Unless, this means the ambassador THEMSELF. The ambassador if being allowed to pitch ideas and feedback. Well, that goes back to my point of them being really careful on who they make an ambassador. Because a user concerned with customization may not particularly care about the BD thus never bring it up as a major thing to be focused on, or a user into the Battledome may not be into the Site Contests (Art, Poetry, Storytelling, Caption Contest, Neopian Times) so their focus is on all that. And I don't think you can guarantee that you'll have an ambassador for every aspect of the site. Ignoring the small compensation (emphasis on "small"), it's that last part that raises my eyebrow: "undertaking miscellaneous tasks, such as labeling art". Focusing on the example they gave, well, what do they mean? Are they talking about like how JN's Dr. Sloth Image Emporium they have several tags which they apply to images? They want the ambassadors to label images with tags within the official image database? Um, how many are you expecting an ambassador to do, because that sounds like it'll take a LONG time; at least if you want to make a decent dent in that workload. And pushing aside how much more an ambassador will be paid, note they're not talking about actual money compensation, they're talking about NC you can only spend on the site. That is a major point. It's nice they want to involve the users, but I think they dived from "having someone which can ask the users for feedback and tell us directly about it" to "a job they should hire someone to do". And I can think of way of doing some stuff they're asking that doesn't require them assigning a user to become an "ambassador", depending on what it is of course. Like if they want images for a batch of items they could have a Random Contest, but if they want images for an upcoming event or something they can use in promotional material than they should have an artist that works for them draw it. There's a fine line here and some higher-up decided it would be fun to use that line to play jump rope with .
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Post by Duke Pikachu on Jul 20, 2023 21:08:43 GMT -5
Can we just quickly talk about some of the " Articles"? Because, as someone who had written several articles for the Neopian Times, these are making MY work look professional (and it's not, so...): * First, none have images, they're a wall of text. Even I include images, and I have to work with what existing images are available to represent what I'm saying; they have artists and graphic designers who could make the image they want! * Second, for articles meant to direct you to the site, they're missing an important thing: LINKS! They have an article about all the Wheels of Neopia and, boy, they sound certainly interesting... too bad they don't provide a direct link to the wheel for a curious user-to-be to come back later to try them out! Want to spin them? Figure out where they are yourself! They have an article on your Neopets Health, but it's only about curing illnesses and is very strange how they go about it, being both vague but also very specific? It's very weird. * Looking at some specific articles now: Top 5 April Fools jokes. Why just 5? And they're not listed in year order but they don't say whether this is how they're ranked (and by who?) are just agreed by... some group these are the best liked?! The write-ups seem fine enough... but this is one where images would have really helped sell what they're describing. Oh, well they do have one image, the header which shows an image for 2022's DungDash... WHICH ISN'T ON THE LIST! And this is especially one of the bad articles because there's something to compare it to (which has a write-up for all April Fools and images to go with them): www.jellyneo.net/?go=fools* 5 Neopian Plots Recapped In 5 Minutes. Why just 5? And does the amount of minutes matter? Looking at the size of the article I don't think it's a 5 minute read unless you speed read through it. And, surprise surprise, some of the summaries are just baffling: Champions of Meridell: I'm not sure Lord Darigan just "snatched" the Orb, after a war where players picked side he won it. And also don't mention WHY Darigan wanted the orb or how it corrupted him, just go right to him transforming himself into an evil demon. And then they finish by saying how the peace made was soon shattered... and not even mention anything about Battle For Meridell. Hannah and the Ice Caves: No mention why Kanrik sought out Hannah, who they only refer to as a barmaid (guess her being a treasure hunter wasn't an important detail), and betrayed her. And than jumps from Hannah seeking revenge to suddenly working with Kanrik. Oh, and then casually mentions the curse on Hannah in the same sentence of cured of it, that ticking clock element guess no important... NO! NO! BAD WRITER! Hannah was ALREADY a "full-pledged adventurer" before the plot; that's why Kanrik sought her out! The Altador Plot: So, this is talking about the plot on the site, not the events in Darkest Faerie PS2 game. Got that? Well, not whoever wrote this, because they mention that in this plot Tormund and Roberta are the main characters?! The main characters of the Altador Plot was the user, it as a self-insert plot. I'm sure there's more mistakes here but that major one is just completely throwing me off, let's go to the next plot. Faeries’ Ruin: Nothing technically wrong here, but the super condensing just makes things go by a mile a second, also spoiling some stuff while keeping other parts not. And then randomly mentions the Darkest Faerie statue, like sure that was something revealed but not really important to this plot. And the final plot is for Virtupets Space Station, which is odd wasn't the first one covered, which is fine as that was a simple plot. It's like they summarized the summary JN wrote (https://bookofages.jellyneo.net/events/?sort=year) but then threw in some of their own inconsistencies just because they could. * ... AND then the horror sets in: These are the people in charge of the next plot... Part of me wants to writing my own NT article summarizing all of the Neopet plots, at least I would add pictures...
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Post by Stephanie (swordlilly) on Jul 20, 2023 21:21:53 GMT -5
I thought more about it. If they don't have enough liquid capital to spare for a competitive wage (since they are essentially rebuilding the brand, like being a start-up all over again), the fair thing to do would be to offer equity, so the person is treated like a business partner. This would also ensure that the person prioritizes actually working for the game and wanting the game to succeed (to attract and retain a playerbase). a user concerned with customization may not particularly care about the BD thus never bring it up as a major thing to be focused on, or a user into the Battledome may not be into the Site Contests (Art, Poetry, Storytelling, Caption Contest, Neopian Times) so their focus is on all that. And I don't think you can guarantee that you'll have an ambassador for every aspect of the site. This exactly. Not to mention, players do have interests in the game itself. Jellyneo once had problems with people who volunteered to update prices in the item database, for example, and used that power to their in-game advantage.
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Post by Fraze on Jul 21, 2023 3:21:51 GMT -5
"undertaking miscellaneous tasks, such as labeling art" This one raised several eyebrows for me. As I understand it, tagging images is one of the steps in training AI image generators. I hope that isn't the implication here.
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Post by Kat on Jul 21, 2023 6:38:16 GMT -5
First impression: I don't like the new layout.
I'm also not really optimistic...I'm just in the "wait and see" boat for now. My interest in the site is already being to tank again aside from popping into the creative contests and the Neopian Times and doing some customizations so yeah. Neopets is gonna have to do better than that for me to be motivated again.
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Post by Liou on Jul 21, 2023 7:38:35 GMT -5
Hmmm. I think it would be quite safe to assume that they are pretty certain that they will not refrain from potentially not making any plans to not consider the prospects of ceasing to ponder the benefits of not deciding that they may partially stop trying to use crypto.
As for the new homepage... who on earth is the target audience for that? because I can't imagine that's the actual players.
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Post by Goosh on Jul 21, 2023 7:45:11 GMT -5
*coffin door slowly creaks open*
Hey Fraze, Huntress. I miss you guys. Someone told me they were bringing back plots!
EDIT: Also, these boards are linked directly on the Neopets site!! We've come a long way from pestering Snowflake and Droplet on here.
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Post by Huntress on Jul 21, 2023 12:06:40 GMT -5
*coffin door slowly creaks open* Hey Fraze, Huntress. I miss you guys. Someone told me they were bringing back plots! EDIT: Also, these boards are linked directly on the Neopets site!! We've come a long way from pestering Snowflake and Droplet on here. DUDE, I was just thinking about you a few days back. Guys, quick, who else am I resurrecting while the planets are still aligned? And in all honesty pestering Snowflake and Droplet on here was a faster and more efficient way of doing it than trying to snipe at whoever so currently happens to be in charge of the NT via neomail. But, y'know, what even is the point of being an ancient dinosaur if you don't get to vibe with the tide of the times. re: the ambitiously-named ambassador program, I think the problem of perception with it is how much actual job-ness it's supposed to entail. Like, in all fairness, people on the boards have spent years being all "let us help you, we have the interest and drive and know-how and ideas!" But either you make it an actual job with tasks and deadlines and pay the worker, or you give them all a tenner in fake money but take what they're willing to give you in their own time at their own pace. And we all know that the olden TNT shied back from using all their eager fresh-faced users as content creators because it opens up a yawning pit of legalese and I rather doubt said pit can be plugged up with a neopian tenner.
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Post by Celestial on Jul 21, 2023 14:06:11 GMT -5
*coffin door slowly creaks open* Hey Fraze, Huntress. I miss you guys. Someone told me they were bringing back plots! EDIT: Also, these boards are linked directly on the Neopets site!! We've come a long way from pestering Snowflake and Droplet on here. I am not even interested in Neo much anymore, but I saw your name pop up and, while I am not Frunty, HELLO. Good to see a fellow oldie!
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Post by Breakingchains on Jul 21, 2023 15:34:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I... definitely do not like the looks of that "ambassador program." I was kinda intrigued when they first announced it, but the compensation is way too low if they expect you to do literally everything on the list.
Like Carolyn said, 1-2 hours a week, sure. Or maybe give neocash payouts on a by-task basis for selected "ambassador" users. But it sounds like they need full blown community managers and that's not the sort of labor you get for free.
Not seeing a new layout on my end, is it mobile? My phone is still broken lol
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