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Post by Liou on Feb 13, 2023 15:36:34 GMT -5
1) No holdover, only accept/reject ... This sounds a lot like it could cause more problems. But. The problem was that people could not get any word back on their submissions. So, if hypothetically the problem was that Stone could not make enough time to set aside some submissions for future issues instead of immediately accepting them, maybe this system would help focus only on the present issue, one thing at a time. If it helps pace them, sure why not. That means no chance of getting feedback on an issue, but I'd rather the editor not take more things on their plate than what can fit. The best way to keep commitments is not to overcommit and I appreciate that.
2) Backlog clear More uncertainty for users as to the why, but if it helps organise on their end, sure why not.
3) Collab 'splaining Heck yes~ Love this for them. \( ̄︶ ̄*\))
4) Comic series??? Ummmmmmmmmm - Okay I'm going to focus on the "no GUARANTEE" bit here because it doesn't sound like utter rejection of comic series, it sounds more like a disclaimer that "hey we might not be able to make this happen, don't say we didn't warn you because we just did" - Comic series are kind of the life of the Neopian Times, the most visual and iconic and quickest way of getting hooked, the most obvious sign that hey, this isn't any random little fanzine, there are talented people investing time and energy into this publication. Comic series made the Neopian Times look glamorous and much more appealing than expected for newcomers. They were often made by the most prolific visual artists, with impressive technique. To mention only one series, how many Neopian Times contributors got motivated to enter when they saw Spooky? Maybe it'd be faster to count who did not. When I first clicked through the Times not knowing what to expect, comic series with recurring big names were the first thing that wowed me and made me want to get in there with them. - Comic series are different from written series because the written series form includes all parts within the same submission, so I figure that means they don't need to sort the parts separately on their end. - I agree that this measure sounds like it's clearing the editor from the responsibility of keeping track of a comic series' parts, and putting that task on the creator to submit each part at a time. I feel sorry that it has to come to that. However, it doesn't sound to me like they don't want to publish comic series anymore? It sounds more like cutting down on the task of keeping track of the comic parts. I hope it can still work if the submitted comics get numbered very carefully. - Not publishing comic series anymore would be an Mistake.
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Post by Twillie on Feb 14, 2023 0:12:10 GMT -5
I don't want to imply that there's any intentional malice towards comic series or an effort not to publish them, just for clarification. When I say the rule change feels unfriendly to comic series, that's not speculation on any feelings that motivated it, but moreso me saying that it makes submitting more difficult regardless.
Right before the Sea collab published, I checked in with Stone to make sure they still had my comics on hand or if they needed me to resubmit anything. They said there was no need and that they had my comics, and then I was still skipped. To me that means that it's not just that comic series have a different submission form from written series and are thus harder to keep track of. I offered to try and help ease the publication of my current series, and it wasn't taken up. That tells me that my series was skipped primarily because it did not fit the theme, something that continued written series don't have to worry about. And that makes me worry that even if I took every precaution and submitted my comics one at a time before every new issue, it may still lead to me getting a comic published once every two or three months if a number of those issues are holidays.
That being said, I don't plan to stop submitting, as I'll at least give this new system a try if it's here to stay. It just kind of bums me out right now and makes things feel more uncertain. I don't think I'm entitled to publication or anything of course, but I am worried what the odds for comic series publication are now compared to other kinds of entries.
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Post by Huntress on Feb 14, 2023 2:43:01 GMT -5
Ironically, it feels like they actually have made their lives a lot more difficult by thinning out the publication schedule. Precisely because of what the ratio of regular-to-special issues looks like now.
How frequent were special issues back in the days of weekly NT? There were special issues for Jhudora, Illusen, Fyora, sometimes Mutant and Grey but not a guarantee, it depended on number of thematic submissions - then of course Halloween and Christmas. Importantly, a special issue could always be skipped if there just weren't submissions for it. It wasn't a given, it was something the authors made to pass and the editors' side could create a special background and hand out prizes if they so chose.
The vast majority of NT issues were just slice of life, and no special backlog or backlog-clearing was needed for that: the editor worked at their own pace looking through entries, had a separate pile of "reviewed and approved" that were held over and could be used on a moment's notice to stack into a given issue. Simple, elegant, worked for years.
Right now it's the exact opposite: special issues are set in stone (ha) and you either theme your entry into that or you wait until another non-themed issue comes along, and the schedule being as infrequent as it is, the ratio is - well, I can conveniently look at Stone's neoboard schedule and the ratio is literally 1:1. Every other issue. Of course they can't build a catchall heldover backlog for something like this. It's like the idea is that authors want to get into the NT solely for prizes/avatars/general sense of community around a themed or collab issue and the idea that some of us create long-running slices-of-life is kind of... well, inconcievable? incomprehensible? inconvenient? and as of now, definitely incompatible.
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Post by Twillie on Feb 19, 2023 16:00:30 GMT -5
Finally sent in an Editorial question regarding this rule change:
We shall see if anything comes of it~
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Post by Stephanie (swordlilly) on Feb 20, 2023 22:53:09 GMT -5
Twillie, I'm so proud of you for summoning the courage to do that. If TNT doesn't bother to respond, I'd be happy to help you bump a board in Site Events.
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Post by Twillie on Feb 21, 2023 9:20:50 GMT -5
Twillie, I'm so proud of you for summoning the courage to do that. If TNT doesn't bother to respond, I'd be happy to help you bump a board in Site Events. Yeah, hopefully they can answer this Friday! If not, I’ll likely at least resubmit to the Editorial and/or neomail them next, since I know sometimes the Editorial requires some persistence lol. I’m hoping communication more direct/personal will work to at least get more info before using more public methods, but we shall see happens!
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Post by Ian Wolf-Park on Feb 24, 2023 18:53:42 GMT -5
Well, Twillie, we got an answer. Can't say that I'm happy with the response as to why.
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Post by Gelquie on Feb 24, 2023 19:08:19 GMT -5
If it were just "entries are not guaranteed every week" by itself, I'd take it as something I personally disagree with but otherwise wouldn't think too hard about it, given that it's probably for workload. (I personally think it's better to submit all at once so that there's no sudden "ohwait this important plot point in the middle of your series is illegal. Shucks." Also I just prefer a continuing series.)
The problem is just the sheer number of themed entries on top of this. I don't think the occasional themed entry is bad, but it's my opinion that there are just way too many themed entries, or not enough issues in general. With the amount of themed entries right now that span for at least half of the year, I'm not sure how continuing comic series under such circumstances would even be possible unless the issue isn't popular.
This is more of a me thing as I don't do comics (can't art), but personally, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to plan future NT arcs or stories that don't go "oh I have to throw Valentine's into this story somehow." I understand themes are good for getting others' writing juices flowing for ideas. There are others like me who already have ideas or are in the zone with an idea or thought and just want to follow our writing flow, even if it has nothing to do with the current theme. Right now, there's not enough room for both. Basically yeah, as Hunty described above, the ratio is off, and themes now feel mandatory rather than an optional prompt.
I just think the current ruling is just not considering that, is all.
It is interesting how much more focus there is on themes from the NT compared to past years. Do they look better, or are they just more popular so there's effort to put them in as much as possible? Is this Stone's idea or ideas from higher-ups who may have different interests?
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Post by Stephanie (swordlilly) on Feb 24, 2023 20:24:15 GMT -5
I liked Herdy's idea (voiced a while back) to just give a prize for every regular issue and cut down on the sheer number of themed issues. I feel like I'm constantly in the situation of having to think, "Hmm... Illusen Day is coming up. What could I do that would fit the theme?" when I already have ideas, and it's frustrating. I bet themed issues wouldn't seem as popular as they do now if regular issues also awarded prizes.
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Post by Kengplant on Feb 25, 2023 1:42:50 GMT -5
I think there's an element that there's been some salt on the neoboards about non-themed entries getting in over themed entries.
I think it's a valid complaint, when those entries don't make sense to be submitted for a normal issue. Like a valentines themed entry in late march would feel weird.
There just isn't enough room for non-themed entries when we're in holiday marathons. And that marathon literally lasts months. Anytime there are two themed entries in a row that's a month gone. I tried to add a valentines bonus to my series, but I'm already trying to fit too much into each entry so there weren't enough KB to include it.
So in my case I have a series that was originally written to fit a theme. Great! I qualify for one themed issue! But now it doesn't fit the other themes. It's not practical to try to write around. Even if I know the schedule and plan ahead, incorporating each theme into the subsequent parts of my series, if even one gets missed now none of them will line up. I can't rearrange the story order to fit the themes!
I tried to keep my Sea series short specifically to reduce the number of publications needed for a straight told story. Whereas I keep my regular series more based around 1 shots for flexibility around themes and missing issues. One should not be treated like the other. I don't expect my one shot series to get a striaght run.
Missing no more than every other issue for a comic series would be a reasonable compromise for me. I would greatly prefer that a series gets a straight run, but with bi weekly NT, skipping more than one issue for a series that's submitted and ready to go feels like they just arent welcome.
They could also impose a comic policy similar to written series that no more than one comic series can be started per week. This would help keep the number of series running at a time to a minimum. Generally written series have about 3 - 5 active running series at a time. I believe in the past that had a cap too. No new series could start until the number of active series had gone down.
I estimate that currently there would be 3 potentially active comic series in the times right now. Myself and Twillie, and one other that I'm not sure about but seemed to be moving into a series but now seems to be trying to work around themes (I have not asked them)
Of those I think only Twillie has a 100% completed set.
So we're rarer than written series by far.
An over focus on themes also disallows reaction to other current neopian events. If we ever get that plot people will want to write about it and react to it. Maybe someone wants to write about seasonal customization, or a recent neoboards trend that needs explaining, or the AC is on!
A policy and simple statement that hey, 15% or w/e number of the themed Issues will be reserved for non themed entries would help clear the air and allow for more flexibility, not just for comic series but for everyone.
Preferably I'd like to see gap issue NTs whenever there are excessive themes. They can be half sized to make the work load reasonable. So a 3 articles/3 shorts, 6-8 comics setup or something. But I don't see that happening currently.
I am definitely speaking out of some frustration of uncertainty here. There are more plot points I want to hit that DO fit certain themes. But to use those ideas there are other story beats I want to hit first. Missing a couple issues I can work around, but I need to know.
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Post by Lex on Feb 25, 2023 11:28:56 GMT -5
They could also impose a comic policy similar to written series that no more than one comic series can be started per week. This would help keep the number of series running at a time to a minimum. Generally written series have about 3 - 5 active running series at a time. I believe in the past that had a cap too. No new series could start until the number of active series had gone down. I don't see why they can't included comic series alongside written ones. Maybe have a (comic) notation in the title to differentiate, but otherwise use the same form and just include a link to each page of the comic in the submission fields. It sounds like the total number of people regularly submitting comic series is small, so I don't imagine this would meaningfully taking away spaces that might have gone to written stories. This feels like a more tolerable solution vs letting them hang out in limbo for 1-2 months waiting to be published and is arguably less work for Stone since its a one and done acceptance/rejection.
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Post by Stephanie (swordlilly) on Feb 25, 2023 13:00:52 GMT -5
I don't see why they can't included comic series alongside written ones. Maybe have a (comic) notation in the title to differentiate, but otherwise use the same form and just include a link to each page of the comic in the submission fields. It sounds like the total number of people regularly submitting comic series is small, so I don't imagine this would meaningfully taking away spaces that might have gone to written stories. This feels like a more tolerable solution vs letting them hang out in limbo for 1-2 months waiting to be published and is arguably less work for Stone since its a one and done acceptance/rejection. My understanding is that there's a technological hurdle. The submission form has a minimum word requirement; anything not meeting the requirement simply won't go through. But if the system can't be updated then maybe Stone would be open to people putting a link to a comic and then just like... lorem ipsum dolor est to make the comic series go through? xDDD And then manually delete the filler. I dunno. It's an idea. The submission system really badly needs an update though. Hire back Gutterfoot, DJ Skellington or someone competent at this sort of thing please
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Post by PFA on Feb 26, 2023 15:50:47 GMT -5
I'm in general agreement about the frustration about the new rules and the abundance of themes being annoying to work around (been trying to get a non-themed comic in since mid December), but I'm also wondering when exactly the clearing of the backlog is supposed to happen, because it apparently has not happened yet. Guess it's still the weekend and maybe I should be more patient, but I was under the impression it would be an immediate thing. XD
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Post by Twillie on Feb 26, 2023 16:26:54 GMT -5
Yeah they didn't give an estimated time on when it would actually happen, so it's hard to say right now. I'm gonna assume that clearing things out will have to be done manually, so it may just be Monday or Tuesday before that happens alas.
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Post by Stephanie (swordlilly) on Mar 3, 2023 14:02:18 GMT -5
Looks like the queue wasn't cleared. o.o Wondering if this means my old submission could still be considered for the upcoming issue. I guess I'll check back in again in a couple days to see if it's still in the system
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