Proposed Changes to the NT Review Threads

[Moni]

This is probably the correct place to post this. Anyway, I discussed this with a few people and they seemed to like it, so I might as well post here and see if other people like it.

Now, some of you may not know what the NT even is. That's okay! It stands for the "Neopian Times" which is, like, a newspaper for Tamogatchi or something. I hear Mewtwo really loves reading it, but we all know that Mewtwo is a horrific amalgamation of Aishas and Zafaras from that other online game, Neopets.

Anyway, you may have noticed that the review threads are not going so hot right now. That's partially because of Tamogatchi's dwindling playerbase but also the fact that you're adults and alive and things. I wanted to mitigate this by a) making the review threads more accessible and b) creating a space where people can review things that aren't horribly recent.

So I have decided upon two discrete steps that were actually decent ideas in a sea of my horrible ones.

1) The Neopian Times Review Threads are already pretty accessible, but the term "review" seems to put off a surprising amount of people from posting, because the word "review" invokes marxist-feminist-anarchist-communist-capitalist-liberal-fruit-critical interpretations of six-word sentences. Well, okay, maybe not exactly, but it's a loaded word and maybe we can try a slight name change that says "it's okay if you don't have a wall of text to say to people, you can still say something." Since Review threads have always been closer to discussion threads, it might be cool to try renaming future threads to "Issue XXX Discussion" instead of "Issue XXX Review" for a few weeks and see if it works.

2) Some weeks are invariably busy and have a lot of busy people, so lots of review threads kind of go by the wayside. Since there's a thread for every issue, if there was a piece you wanted to say something about but it happened two months ago, you're going to have to necro a thread, and no one likes necromancers ever since what happened at Salem. So I wanted to create an NT Talkback Thread, a thread where you can talk about any NT piece in any NT issue--people can review, comment, or even ask for reviews on something that was in an older issue (probably limited to before the past 10 issues or so).

What do you guys think of these ideas? Good? Bad? No opinion? Let me know!

[Twillie]

I think these ideas could be worth trying, yeah! Changing "review" to "discussion" could indeed make the threads more accessible because, while they're already open for discussion format, it can still feel like one needs to give "proper" reviews, which can either feel intimidating or time consuming. "Discussion" could hopefully help quell some of those misgivings.

The talk back thread also sounds nifty; while necro'ing isn't an explicit rule I don't think, it's definitely still not something people enjoy doing, especially for much older threads. Plus the fact that it could just be extra work digging up the old thread, and why post there if the original author isn't even around anymore? Having a talk back thread where you can review old pieces or simply talk about older issues with others currently around sounds like something neat to try.

[Ryanruff13]

Twillie did an excellent job at summing up my thoughts. I feel that the word "discussion" is broad enough to encourage people to share their thoughts without having to write a full-fledged review, as well as making it possible to discuss issues not necessarily related to individual entries but also the issue in general (e.g. the editorial, just to name one example).

Similarly, a talkback thread would make me feel more comfortable to share my thoughts on submissions from long ago, especially given my nostalgia goggles when it comes to submissions by earlier NT contributors.

[Moni]

Thank you, Twillie and Ryan, for sharing your thoughts. < 3 It would seem that these two steps would indeed help people participate, and are not just random byproducts of my brain.

Does anybody else have anything to add, whether it be an agreement or disagreement?

[Huntress]

I could theorize (read: pull entirely out of my backside) that the review threads have been getting progressively deader because of the perceived structure they built up over the years. Once upon ye oldie days (even before I came along) they were straight-up chat threads where people talked about anything and everything and reviews happened on the side. Eventually the 'bloids were created because of this, to siphon the chatter off someplace more appropriate. Since then, the review threads have gotten steadily more structured, with the author lists and the images posted at the start and the overall guidelines that were later done away with and overall a whole lot of perceived air of "thou shalt follow certain rules on these threads", which would make posting pretty intimidating on the whole. Especially considering that review threads are a bit more newbie-prone than other areas.

In other words, I'm all for everything that breaks up any kind of perceived structuring like this. Not sure how much of a difference Discussion threads as opposed to Review threads would make, because I sort of suspect that the very ded review threads are now largely this way because of the decreasing interest. We just used to have a whole lot more active authors on board. Buuut there's no harm whatsoever in testing it for a few weeks all the same.

Purely from an organizational standpoint, I'd prefer one ongoing NT discussion thread over this current slightly awkward situation where review threads are diligently made by one or two people every week and only gather mebbe two-three posts each. Review threads were once part of Times Lobby, then they were cordoned off to a subboard and now they're their own separate mainpage board, but right now they don't seem to justify that setup any more. Depends somewhat on just how many people are prone to reading the NT less often than weekly. I'm a pretty erratic NT reader and sometimes I can go on a comic binge through a dozen past issues, but by that point I'm not going to necro an old review thread any more.

(Also, I'm a strong proponent of talking about entries regardless of whether their authors are around, because that's how I joined this forum myself xD Googled my username, found that some kind soul had commented on my comic here, got curious and here I am twelve years later.)

(...tldr: many thumbs up, very yay, much agreed :'D)

[Moni]

Huntress Yeah, my original idea, as you know, was to scrap the review threads entirely and have a talkback thread instead, but that seemed like... an extreme change to me. There's no reason why there couldn't be a post every week in the talkback thread talking about the newest issue--I suppose it would be a little too messy--but I like tradition. It depends on how popular? good? the talkback thread ends up being.

Thank you for your input!

[Huntress]

Nov 23, 2017 3:48:58 GMT -5 Moni said:

Huntress Yeah, my original idea, as you know, was to scrap the review threads entirely and have a talkback thread instead, but that seemed like... an extreme change to me. There's no reason why there couldn't be a post every week in the talkback thread talking about the newest issue--I suppose it would be a little too messy--but I like tradition. It depends on how popular? good? the talkback thread ends up being.

Thank you for your input!

Mmyeswell, it would undeniably be a major change, but if the review threads are barely used anyway then it'd be more of a change in spirit than functionality. Which still isn't a small issue, because hey check us out, we're the Neopian Times Writers' Forum, backbone of the NT for over fifteen years blah blah, now without any review threads cos we couldn't keep them alive :'D But the present situation being what it is, I'm wondering if a single ongoing discussion thread somewhat similar to Mini-Comments would engender more activity than the visibly inactive review threads. Could, of course, also run them in parallel, but then I sorta fear that splitting the already low activity between more threads might kill things further.

There's also a theoretical middle-ground option: individual posts can be merged into other threads. Like, say there's a review thread and it nominally ends when a new issue is released, at which point the posts in it could be moved to the ongoing talkback thread. That would, of course, only be practical if the review threads continue being as short as they are (but I am operating on the basis of the current situation) and it also means needing to prod a mod in the eyeball every week. Also depends heavily on just how much overlap there'd be. Iunno, I'm just throwing out thoughts now. Maximum NT discussion goodness vs eyeballs, not an easy decision xD

'course, I can throw out ideas all I like but NT reviews sit so close to the heart of the forum that it'd be good to get as much input as possible. Vox populi and so forth.

*prods lurkers in the eyeball*

[Fraze]

*Prodded in the eyeball*
*Is in fact the only forumer Huntress can actually prod in the eyeball on a regular basis*

Every few years somebody brings up the idea of making an archive of NT stories (sorted by genre/location/characters or whatever else), to make them easier to find if people want to read something specific. Nobody ever actually goes through with it, because it'd be a herculean undertaking. Frankly it would've been nearly impossible to manage even in the forum's heyday, when we had twice as many active members with twice as much free time as we do now and half as many NT issues to sort through.

Buuuut if we put aside the idea of a comprehensive archive of every NT thingy ever written, then a talkback thread would actually work pretty well as an alternative way to make recommendations: "Hey I found this old comic/story/series and it's really good, go check it out if you're looking for a story with these-and-these characteristics."

[Twillie]

I feel like merging past review threads into the talkback thread would probably still be splitting bases, as then it's a question of should I post in the review thread, or directly in the talkback thread, is one for discussion while the other's for reviews, etc. 

If we're going all out to get better activity for issue reviews and discussion, perhaps one thread would indeed serve better than separate review threads. Because yeah, a thread is made, it doesn't get replies, and then it's sort of just left there as an example for the following threads. One thread could be discussion for past issues, as well as any reviews or comments for current issues, plus people can ask for reviews if they're seeking any.

Fraze There actually is already a comprehensive NT Index that has every NT thingy from the first issue to the current (I dunno who still updates it, but I really want to thank them x3). It's a little limited in its search abilities, as you can't search for actual story content like character names or genre, instead it has to be title, author, type of submission, etc., but it's still pretty darn useful for what it is. A link to it from here could perhaps be a good tool to have in making recommendations and browsing (especially considering that they already have a link to us over there).

[Zoey]

I like the idea of combining the review threads into one talkback/discussion thread. Of course, people can link stories from earlier issues if they want (if, say, they want to be nostalgic and talk about stoneman3x's comics from back in the heyday), but otherwise I don't see a real need to list out every single NT story/comic in each issue. If someone would like a critique or review of a specific piece that's already published, they can link it and request for them.

It sucks that we aren't as active as we were before, but I know many of us have jobs and families to take care of, and if making review threads has more costs than benefits, then I understand the need to downsize. I'm sure if forum activity picks up in the future, we can always go back to the one-thread-an-issue pattern.

Just my two cents, though--I haven't been active in the review threads as of late. XD

[Moni]

Huntress yeah, I'm trying to get as many opinions as physically possible, barring sending an actual survey via PM to everyone in the forum. x)

(Nah, I wouldn't do that, I'm lazy.)

I'm not sure that we'd need to go for an over-complicated system of merging threads. If we keep the review threads and talkback threads separate--the talkback thread can be for anything over ten issues old, else go to the review/discussion thread. I don't thiiiink that needs mod merging per say.

If you combine the two, then you could keep the "hey this is what's out this week" vibe via regular comments on the thread. ^^

Well, I know for a fact that tooons of lurkers are on this thread. STOP LURKING. COME OUT.

Fraze Oh dear God no, I'm not going to suggest an archive anytime soon; that's a bit of an impossible task. I think we do have one forum member that has archived all NT entries relating to TFR, but there's no reason why people can't just use the NT database if they want to find an entry relating to something they like.

But yeah, glad to know you're in favor of some sort of talkback thread!

And thanks for the input, Zoey and Twillie!

[Ryanruff13]

Nov 24, 2017 4:33:49 GMT -5 Moni said:

If we keep the review threads and talkback threads separate--the talkback thread can be for anything over ten issues old, else go to the review/discussion thread.

This one sounds like my preferred solution; I'm not opposed to still having review threads to provide an organized place for people's thoughts on recent submissions so that their posts don't get lost within one large thread, while creating a talkback thread to encourage people to comment on past submissions. Such a solution sounds like the best of both worlds to me.

As a side note, I probably would have been frequenting and commenting in the review threads much more if it weren't for me personally being sidetracked, and it really is something that I should be doing more of.

[Moni]

Ryanruff13 Yep! That was the solution I initially put forth.

And no worries; everyone gets sidetracked at some point. :3

--

Oh, hello lurkers.

You think you can just leave likes on the thread and my posts about lurkers and just LEAVE?

I don't think so.

You should add your opinion since you're watching.

Seriously.

Now.

[Huntress]

*crickets chirp*

*gives crickets a side-eye*

I sortof wonder if most people feel like they're not really in the position to comment on NT reviewing business; either because they've long since stopped playing the site or because they haven't done reviews in half a forever and thus don't feel justified pitching in.

I, of course, haven't done reviews in more than half a forever, I'm just one of those people who sticks her nose in everything :]

Dunno how I feel about limiting the talkback thread to more than ten issues in the past; that sounds like it'd be a pain to observe, especially since even much more recent review threads don't really get necro'd at all. If anything, I'd be chill with leaning in the other direction and allowing crossposting reviews to a review thread as well as the talkback. If, y'know, we go the route of running them parallel at all. Personally I think I'd be more likely to post on the talkback thread to make casual commentary of whatever NT-stuff has caught my eye (although don't hold me to that, my activity levels are frankly terrible these days :'D)

Either way, considering current input and the crickets, the talkback thread could mebbepossibly be created pretty soon, since the votes seem uniformly in its favor? We can still figure out other technicalities on the go.

We once had a link to the NT index on the forum mainpage and everything (man, how many people here still remember the Spotbox?) but the thing with the Index is, its value is purely statistical. If I wanted to, say, sit down and read an NT series that's action-adventure and also funny, I have basically no way to search for that anywhere, short of maybe scouring through old NT Awards nominations. If you open up just a random NT series, you have no way of knowing what you're getting yourself into and when I feel like reading, I generally feel like reading some specific genre and style, not just "can has words plz?" Really what the NT needs is hashtags xD

[Blueysicle]

...I'm not trying to speak for any other lurkers here, but I personally haven't posted anything until now because I don't feel that I'd bring anything new to the discussion. How I feel has more or less already been said -and articulated way better than I could- by other people, so I didn't want to come here just to say, "Yeah, what such-and-such said." And if I may be blunt, saying stuff like, "Lurkers, you better GET IN HERE and POST," doesn't exactly foster an atmosphere that gets people to participate.

I guess if I'm gonna try to throw in my two cents while I'm here, I suppose I'm alright with the idea with changing "Reviews" to "Discussion" and having a talkback thread for older issues? I'm not too keen on the idea of getting rid of the weekly Review/Discussion threads entirely, and I that I personally like the weekly list of NTWFers and what submissions they have in. I do understand that members that aren't NTWFers might come across the feedback and appreciate their submissions being talked about, and I have absolutely no problems with that. But I also feel that a list of submissions also shows the people giving the feedback which authors/artists are likely to respond to it here. (And I swear, I'm not just saying this because I used to make quite a few of the Review threads/lists. )