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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 12:24:56 GMT -5
I also know everyone must be sick and tired of me gabbing on and on about Sailor Moon, but WD's visual is at least partially inspired by Sailor Cosmos, guaranteed, which makes my little Sailor Moon fangirl heart squeal bc it's got to be like, what, the 20th Sailor Moon reference or inspiration I spot on the show? But this case, the white caped literal goddess of creation and destruction is not a coward running away from her problems and passing as a little child to try to convince the protagonist to destroy the source of all star life on the galaxy. No, this time, it's a 30's cartoon comic character obviously coded to be emotionally (and maybe even physically) abusive. Oh, definitely. There's also some cool Metropolis influences, as some folks have pointed out:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 12:58:49 GMT -5
yeah i saw people talk about those similarities too. honestly, Sugar has done a reference stew for us this time, and the outcome... It's outlandishly, scarily beautiful and ethereal and alien and godly like she wanted to convey. But I'll never get the image of her being a lightbulb with lashes and lipstick out of my head like, ever. I mean like, pfffft, it's perfect.
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Post by Blueysicle on Jul 24, 2018 15:58:52 GMT -5
I've been seeing a few theories floating around that White Pearl and our Pearl were switched at some point. The big thing that people are pointing out is that our Pearl's gem placement matches White Diamond's (Their head) while White Pearl matches Pink Diamond's. (Their navel) Perhaps it's related to whatever happened to poor White Pearl too.
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Post by Killix on Jan 4, 2019 22:13:32 GMT -5
Collection of thoughts from the latest two episodes: "Steven stop, you're going to break her" *looks over at White Diamond's Pearl* *Grabs Yellow Pearl close* You'd better not. >8{
So... the other Diamonds don't have healing tears, but their sweat creates gems? Yellow has a sauna and blue has a hot tub. We see the liquid collected afterwards. Is this the liquid that they pump into planets to make gems? That means Gems are made from blood sweat and tears. 8D
I wouldn't be surprised if White Diamond filled in that blood requirement somehow.
Sorry Steven, White Diamond can't attend your party 'cause she's too busy holding the planet together. GG.
Not many because I can't remember everything what I wanted to say. XD
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 8:40:48 GMT -5
Anyone saw the leaked promo for Battle of the Heart and Mind? Because holy crap that's gonna be a doozy
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 7:16:47 GMT -5
Guuuuys
Anyone watch the season finale yesterday and is still super shook?
There are some parts... They were very scarring for a kids show, and it was all PG. Jeez that show gets dark.
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Post by Liou on Jan 22, 2019 14:05:27 GMT -5
Guuuuys Anyone watch the season finale yesterday and is still super shook? Why yes I did, over lunch break! (Gasp, Liou watches SU? No, not really! It's technically not my cup of tea, in pacing, art style or most of the episodes. But I do, very very specifically, watch episodes related to the diamonds' arc, and to some fusions. I just watch for Blue and Yellow Diamond. Okay, mainly for Blue. I love the way they play off each other and both their VAs sound amazing. Yellow Diamond isn't even a character I'd usually like, but Patti Lupone is that good. I also watched the episodes with Sugilite, because that's what got me curious in the first place: what would Nicki Minaj sound like voicing a cartoon character. Where were we?) Spoilers for Change Your Mind ahead! A second spoiler box just to be safe! Pointy manicured nails can be terrifying and I'm glad somebody agrees and used their potential for horror. So that was another magnificent performance of White Diamond (then joined by the White Diamond Chorus), her words to Steven painfully twisted and manipulative.
White-Diamond-ified Crystal Gems were nightmarish, but I think the truly scary moment was when she took over Blue and Yellow at first, as they had just been Steven's most powerful support and best shot.
The gem-extraction was, I think, the one thing for which nobody really knew what might happen? Terribly suspenseful. And the black-and-white visual of it, goodness. I think it also had the best possible resolution, such a relief that Steven's identity is immutable. And that seems super validating to me because...
the whole thing can be read as a trans coming-out? One of the most powerful lines imo was Blue's: "She prefers to be called Steven." That's like, when one's first ally family member stands up for one's identity. Which brings me to how much I liked Blue's scenes and how she stood up to Yellow and how brave that was. Steven was the instigator of the huge change that swept through them, and did the most and persevered the most and is best love child, but Blue was the first other diamond to turn around and stand up for him. I just love how she's portrayed as someone so weepy but has such great strength of character.
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Post by Celestial on Jan 22, 2019 16:03:57 GMT -5
Liou I am glad that somebody else shares my love of Blue Diamond. She is beautiful and I relate to her a lot. (Also her voice is wonderful. As far as I'm aware, she's mainly a singer but she has one other voice acting role: Song of the Sea, where she voices the selkie mum.) As for the episode...okay, I'm still processing. As with all things SU, this did not go how I would have ideally done it (especially in regards to one character, I'll get into it in spoilers) but it was still highly satisfying. Now...spoilers: The fusions. The fusions. My favourite has to be Obsidian, who is so perfectly fitted together in face and body, and beautiful. She is like a goddess made out of lava. Also that sword, holy crap. She might have beaten Opal as my favourite fusion.
Holy crap, we got to see what happens when Steven's gem is removed. That was a really creepy and powerful scene. Pink Steven was scary, especially in the way he emotionally no-sold everything thrown at him. I am glad Steven got him back because it looks like he was seriously struggling.
Yellow and Blue having their emotional arc and realising what they have done was so satisfying. I was hoping they would realise what they have done was wrong, especially Blue. I am glad Blue was the first one to acknowledge the abuse and try to do something about it.
Now...this is higly subjective and my opinions might differ from everyone else's here. I personally felt White Diamond's conversion was too easy. Don't get me wrong, it felt well done and I knew they had to do it in order to achieve their mission objective of curing the corrupted gems, but it just does not sit right with me. The whole theme of the episode, and heck, the Diamond arc was abuse. White was the primary instigator of abuse with her actions. Especially the way she was manipulating Steven and trying to twist him to believe what she wanted him to believe. She should not have been won over in such an easy manner, if at all. Abusers can change but they just as easily cannot change.
But the fact that the other characters learn to stand up to the abuse to some degree some mitigate the harm of that message, so that's good.
This all feels very...resolved. How are they going to keep going with this?
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Post by Breakingchains on Jan 22, 2019 16:10:32 GMT -5
My feelings about this show have gotten more mixed since season 4 but ya know what, they did all right with the finale. We're also getting a season 6 and a movie this fall so hopefully that will tie up loose ends. Honk if White almost had YOU convinced that Steven was just another one of Pink's disguises. That whole speech was painfully well-executed.
Also the animation during that One Sequence was absolutely beautiful, you know the one. This whole show deserved James Baxter animation and it honestly just kinda makes it sting more how awful some segments have looked on this show but I digress
Some stuff ended up feeling rushed, especially the method of curing corrupted gems which I'm still puzzling over, but given the ambition and production issues of this show IDC anymore. I'm so glad it exists.
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Post by Rabbit ♠ on Jan 22, 2019 16:46:25 GMT -5
Welp, time to share my thoughts on the recent episode. (May go out of order, I'm really just following a train of thought.) First thing's first, the entire climax with White was just downright unnerving to me and I love it. All the gems under White's control, almost everything void of color, the gems speaking at the same time but still having only one voice, it was so cool and off-putting at the same time. There were parts where I kind of wanted the entire sequence to end. It was extremely well done. Wow, I loved it. 10/10
The joining of Steven's human half and his gem half was so beautiful, major props go to James Baxter. Round of applause for that man.
I love Rose Quartz 2.0, I love them dearly.
Obsidian is amazing, I love them too. When I saw their face, my first thought was, "THEIR FACE IS THE SAME ONE ON THE CRYSTAL TEMPLE." Very clever, Crewniverse, very clever.
Still love Peridot. Still my favorite gem.
With the newer episodes, the more I see of Blue, the more I love her. She's so sweet when she warms up to everyone.
I do wish Lars and the off colors were part of the climax, but I understand why that wasn't the case (they still had to get to Earth, after all). I also feel that White's revelation was a bit rushed. With Blue and Yellow, they had more time to take everything in, but White... not so much. At least that's what I think. (I would have been satisfied if she was poofed.)
As strange as it is, though, I do somewhat relate to White wanting to be flawless. That's probably not a good thing to relate to, but it did give me a bit of insight of her motivations. Do I support her? Absolutely not. It put things into a bit of perspective to me, though.
Overall, very good special, very good finale, gut punches and all.
Also, CENTI IS FINALLY HEALED. Yay. ;u;
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Post by Moni on Jan 22, 2019 17:27:50 GMT -5
There was a finale? I thought the whole creepy gem HELLO thing was the finale.
welp there looks to be some cool stuff so i should probably watch it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 19:12:12 GMT -5
Honestly, even with its downfalls and flaws I still think this episode was outstanding, 10/10, and it left me completely flabbergasted. Hands down best episode ever, it felt like a finale to more than just an arc and a season, but almost befitting of being the series' finale, and I'm very curious and clueless about what direction will Sugar take from now on on the show. The scenes where Steven is discussing with Blue, and then the two discuss with Yellow were wonderful, making an abuser, mainly an underling abuser come to their senses like that, realize that they're perpetrating something that is not only harmful to them, but is hurtful to those they love is downright cathartic to me considering how much I can identify myself with them.
But I am not sure if I'm completely onboard with the idea of "Blue and Yellow helped Steven after he talked to them therefore they're truly reformed and good now." Not when literally two episodes before the two were literally being the Gem parallel to intolerant bigoted parents of an LGBT+ kid to Steven. They're not good, they've just seen their faults, and realized the problems that they've caused and why they're doing it, but that doesn't take away their past, and I do hope Rebecca does address that eventually because it sort of fell flat to me. Not to mention the ever so mentioned part where they're literally tyrannical leaders of an imperialistic empire that literally decimates any life and drains the very life of any planet in the name of expanding their empire, and they literally treat their underlings like dirt, ruling them with fear, actively hunting of anyone who strays out of line willingly or naturally, doing horrifying experiments with their enemies, etc, they're really, really far from being forgiven, and I would not see them as good. These two have a loooot of fixing to do before they can be absolved like that.
And speaking of really hard to absolve space dictators, White is even further away from being called "good," considering that she is the kingpin there, and a really good example of a narcissistic parent. I feel like the downfall of Rebecca's storytelling is that she's really good at characterizing the villains, so good that redemption feels near impossible to them, and since she is writing a story about hope and peace and talking things through, it doesn't match up. White's projecting speech was almost too convincing, it was too good, she really was selling her truth to me as the audience, which is fantastic, but yet, at the same time, it only made her look worser and worser. And when she was finally defeated by the facts, and by being basically publicly shamed into showing her cracks of her mask of perfection, it was ever so cathartic as well.
But the fact that she was defeated like that and she is characterized as such an honestly irredeemable character, because everyone who understood the character can easily understand how a redemption for someone like that is just not possible, makes me doubt that she actually ever changed. Personal experience tells me that when you bring a narcissist like that to their knees and make them "admit" they're wrong, mainly if they're outpowered or outnumbered, they may be docile and fake a quick redemption like that, where they "see the error of their ways" and other typical things they understand they need to do to sell the idea that they've changed and people can trust them again, but then at the first opportunity they have to get back on their feet, they come back in full force, vengeful and ever so bad as always, and ready to take back the control they've lost. Which makes me uneasy as to how White is acting in the final act of the season finale, I've seen it before. But maybe this is Steven Universe, and villains truly can change their ways through talk, and it's all good and dandy. Who knows, right? At least the corrupted gems have been restored their forms (mostly), maybe more content will spawn from there on.
Besides those issues I had, I absolutely adored the episode. The pacing was great, the visuals were amazing! Yellow and Blue's bridge fight, the battle scene with the mecha, the battle with White in her head ship, that scene where Human Steven and Pink Steven fuse back together, they all left my jaw 2 meters beneath the ground. Everything was bigger, better, amazing! Pink Steven shouting "SHE'S GONE!" at White Diamond literally gave me the chills. I am such a sucker for anime dramatics and visuals, and Sugar really pulls it off on her art without seeming out of place! And the fusions, OMG, the fusions, I love each and every one of them, Smoky Quartz having a "what was I doing?" moment, Rainbow Quartz 2.0 totally being a Mary Poppins/Doctor Who hybrid of british goofiness and elegance, and Sunstone being a 90s PSA character, but my heart belongs to our volcano deity fusion, Obsidian, their mouth-forged fire sword, and their beautifully flaming looks and strength! Not to mention, Lapis and Peridot's new forms! It was too much all of the time, and it was so exciting, it really felt like a journey in a span of an hour.
Also, can I mention how mentally jarring that scene where White pulls out Steven's gem was? It didn't help that I was expecting (probs from the fact that I usually watch higher maturity rating media) gruesome things to happen, but without it, it felt even more gruesome. That whole scene in White's head ship was really dark and jarring actually, mental control, erasing one's personality and individuality and making them a puppet, and White's speech, and then White doing that to Steven, it was nightmare fuel-ish, imo. Not to say I didn't like it, I really like dark stuff, but wow when Steven was grabbed by White all sirens were going off on my head. Eurgh.
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Post by Killix on Jan 22, 2019 20:46:05 GMT -5
Season finale was great! Spoilarz below. So I just finished watching, and I'm really glad I managed to dodge spoilers. With the way everyone was (vaguely/spoiler-free) talking about how they cried and had super feels, I went in thinking something terrible happens and was bracing myself the entire time for a character to die. XP
You don't know how glad I am that didn't happen. XD
Wowzers, White Diamond was a huge abusive manipulative jerk. I have to admit that her heel-face turn felt a bit quick, but on the other hand I'm glad that it wasn't needlessly dragged out as there was a lot to fit in one episode. I think I understand what exactly went down, too, and it fits well into the plot: The diamonds have the ability to... radiate their powers and all gems in the vicinity are affected by the aura. Blue's Tears of Sadness (Emotion) White with her Control Freak Puppetry (Mind) Yellow's power is a bit more direct, destroying a gem's projected physical form (Body)
Steven's power O' Pink happens to be empathy/soul or something similar. His power was so strong that it sucker punched White Diamond and she was forced to confront that "imperfect" part of herself that she had so diligently repressed for thousands of years. In a sudden moment, she had new perspective and the foundation of self-inflicted lies came crumbling down - replaced by he empathy she had discarded so long ago in her quest for an idealistic existence.
Steven had such a strong sense of self/identity that he was totally just no-selling her attacks. He's super OP top tier elite pro. Oh, and I guess we finally get an answer to "What happens if Steven's gem is removed?" Thankfully the answer isn't super gory. White Diamond goin' in for the kill will haunt my nightmares forever, though.
I'm a little sad that the gem corruption curing plot was resolved in a montage at the end, though I still enjoyed it. (Jasper with horns is adorable) Looks like I was right with the method, too. Diamond juice bath for the win!
(Detail I noticed: Pink Pearl wakes up all "Wat" and reaches to feel her cracked face as if it wasn't something she was expecting. I'm guessing that indicates she was damaged some time after White Diamond puppet-ified her!)
I also enjoyed the little bits of humour sprinkled in. It was definitely done right in that I didn't get mood whiplash from it. Which is good because some parts of that episode were pretty heavy.
I'm not certain where the series will go from here, but I have a feeling it will be character-focused as there B still much to resolve regarding character arcs. Plus, we still don't know the ultimate fate of Homeworld and a lot of plot mysteries are still unexplained. I believe there's still a lot to look forward to!
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Post by Gelquie on Jan 22, 2019 22:24:12 GMT -5
Ah, so, the episode. ("Change your Mind", for reference.) My opinions... are actually kinda mixed? Don't get me wrong, I love that the show dived right into this sort of content and went into so much depth about it. What abusive relationships look like, telling kids that it's not normal, showing lower-key abusive people as abusive without painting them in black-and-white, the self-love thing, and all the not-even-implied tones of what LGBT+ people often go through with their family, and the kind of situations they can find themselves in if they don't have supportive families. I really love that, and i love that a show finally touched on it.
My gripes are mainly that it all felt very rushed. It's particularly prominent with how Steven convinced White Diamond. (I mean, he got her with a snarky one-liner? I mean, I know there's more to it than that, but that's really what it felt like. I've seen abusive people like that get lines like that; they just get angrier.) I see it in how fast Blue and Yellow came around too. There was more build-up there, true, but it seemed like it came down to Steven giving just the right speech? When it can be way more complicated than that. A character's redemption for abuse can start with the right words at the right time, but it takes so much more time for them to sink in, not just "oh no, I must be wrong... okay, time to be a complete and total ally to you now!!". When maybe it could linger longer at the first clause before they start really being of much help. And I worry about how that comes across, because it kinda sends the message that you can get instant results with just the right words, when it's far more complicated than that, and in situations like those, could even be disastrous.
I did kinda believe Blue's turnaround more than the others', though, since we've spent more time on her and her connection to Steven. And I did like the nod to how to defend family members with some of the phrases she gave after she turned herself around and tried to better herself.
The fusions came by very quickly, and I kinda wish there was more individual spotlight on each of them. That said, I loved all of the fusions and am really glad I got to see them all! My favorite has to be Obsidian; lava spider woman is best fusion.
White Diamond is a really effective villain, and as noted earlier, a perfect example of narcissistic abuse. It was so yikes. There was the gaslighting "look what you did, *zaps the gems* why did you make me do that you're terrible", turning his friends and family who were previously allies against them and making them parrot her words, the entire speech, the manipulation, dang. And yeah, I'll admit, her speech about Steven being another form of Rose did make me think "hey wait a minute, you got a point there...". It's a great way to highlight the dangers of people like that. And her removing the gem... Dear gosh. (Also, now that I'm pretty certain that Pearl was actually originally White's Pearl before being given to Pink, note the foreshadowing some episodes ago, where the gems kidnapped baby Steven, and what Pearl tried to do. Now look at that scene. ._. )
But I absolutely love how they did the scene with separating the Stevens, confirmation that he's he, and his fusion showing the importance of self-love. The fusions covered the other types of love, so self-love is a perfectly fitting one in that bit.
I also loved seeing WD's temper tantrum, because that is absolutely one way abusive people act when people aren't getting their way, whether or not it involved literally pounding the ground with their fists.
But then there was the one-liner. Much as I love the line and the snark, I really don't believe that that would've turned her around, or at least not for long.
But then Killix has a point that maybe it was fueled by Steven's empathy diamond powers. He's not playing with a normal deck here.
I'll admit the end parts where they returned and fixed things was a little rushed too, but I don't feel it was longer than it needed to be either. I don't mind Lars and co. returning around that time; all the more we would've seen was them continuing their Space Captain adventures, much like previous episodes. Didn't really matter when they returned, so I guess they figured why not at the same time as others? I have no issues there. I also don't mind the corrupted gems being healed quickly; once all the diamonds were on board (or at least tolerating it), it felt like it could go quickly. It's interesting to see that the post-corrupted gems didn't entirely lose all their corruption features! I think that's kinda neat, actually. It's not really something you can hide.
That reaaaally felt like a series ender, so I'm surprised to hear there's more seasons. I honestly wouldn't mind if it ended here, as that felt all wrapped up, and I don't want SU to stretch its content so much that everything else and the new ending point feels weak. I guess I could see a few points where things could continue, mainly in character development. We could see more of the corrupted gems, how they're doing, whether they settle into Earth or if they decide to go elsewhere, and how they cope. We could see more of the Diamonds and seeing how much is really sticking. It would be nice if we saw them kind of wobbling with their redemption, because I feel that's more normal. (And we saw some of that wobbling with Peridot early on, so I'm surprised I'm not seeing it so much here. ...Maybe that's one reason I find the turnarounds so weird. It took, like, a season or half a season (depending on where you start keeping track) for Peridot to turn around, but only so many standard-length episodes for WD?)) We could see a bit more of the settling of Beach City now that Lars and co have returned, though honestly, they had a nice concluding place where I'd be happy to leave that. And if the Diamond's turnarounds are real, maybe we can see them starting to take their changes home to Homeworld and fix their broken system. (And broken planet?) Which could help wrap up the issues some people seem to have with the Diamond Authority. (Which is deserved. I guess the way I see it is that it's intended to look like a family unit, not a governing system. Not that I think they avoided that well, but if I just look at them like the family system I think they're intended to be, I can get closer to what I think the show creators meant.) Basically, I though there were some flaws to this episode and I can't give it high ratings. But I think there was a lot of good in this episode too, and I'd be remiss to ignore those! Give and take.
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Post by PFA on Jan 23, 2019 11:57:21 GMT -5
I don't really have anything to add that hasn't already been said about the episode, but I did want to talk a bit about the upcoming movie. (idk if you all saw it, but there was a short teaser that played right after the episode) It looks like they're setting up for a new villain, which I'm guessing is how they intend to continue the series. I'm definitely curious who the villain will be. It seems like a Gem, maybe a Gem who isn't happy with the apparent reformation of the Diamonds? An ex-corrupted Gem that really shouldn't have been brought back? Possibilities!
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