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Post by Shadaras on Jul 14, 2011 11:36:46 GMT -5
Hello, folk.
I know we've said that this should happen. Now, we need to make it happen.
Some things I'd like the Knights to consider as we go into this: I'd love to make it so that the Colour Guard is separate from our guild. It started bothering me a bit ago that the King's elite guard was going gallivanting off every which way. Therefore, I'd like to propose that the Colour Guard be an elite guard for the King based on the seven generally accepted colours of the rainbow that have nothing to do with our organization. This does not mean our characters cannot still have colours attached to our ranks -- it just means the colours can't be those of the rainbow. I would suggest, however, that we all decide to either have colours or not.
So, now that that's over with -- we're merging two guilds who live within the same country and have the same medieval theme. How much of a merge are we making this? Are we saying that the mages and knights are still nominally separate organizations, led by Archmage and King (respectively)? Or are we saying now that the Archmage answers to the King, and is something like a General would be for the army (which most ordinary knights would be part of)?
And suggestions for what to call this merged organization would be very helpful. Current best suggestion, and one of the only suggestions, is The Kingdom, but if you have other ideas, please post them.
Anyone else have something else to say on this topic? xD It's an open discussion that is going to last until we have a decent idea of what this guild is going to be and someone who wants to post a thread for it and get a role-call going. :3
That said, this thread -- and its discussion -- are now open.
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Post by Celestial on Jul 14, 2011 13:00:45 GMT -5
I think it would be better if the King is head of everything, with major decisions being brought to him by the Archmage and the General but having the latter deal with the day to day affairs of running each guild. The mages could be a sub-section of the army that specialises in magic (which brings up the question; if we're part of the army, do we want ranks?) including applications of magic and research.
Another name could be perhaps...Dunbarrow army (with sub-sections of Knights and Mages)?
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Post by Tiger on Jul 14, 2011 13:30:31 GMT -5
I like The Kingdom, or just Dunburrow. I guess it could also be called the Medieval Guild, but that doesn't really lend itself to casual conversation.
When I imagine the merge, I really imagine ...forgive the odd comparison, but I imagine the mages sort of like the X-Men; they help out and everything (it'd probably be a more formal arrangement between the Archmage and King), but otherwise they're at Xavier's school doing their own mutant thing. Obviously with the mages, there'd be more interactions between the two, but governing mages might be something best left to other mages =P
I do like the idea of the mages and knights being a pretty mixed group of the same citizenry, but since we're presumably going to stick to guild canon, I think ICly this would make more sense as being an alliance that's just much closer than what the mages are/were trying to do with Brassport. Even if we go the separate leaders route, though, it's entirely possible the two populations can merge to just be led by the King.
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Post by Jason on Jul 14, 2011 16:00:04 GMT -5
I think if we merge the two, it should be one group specializing in both magic/nonmagic combat with one or two leaders who share a headquarters (possibly a combination of both?). Possibly merging the King and the Archmage into one character if we choose to go with one character or having the two be on equal power/importnce levels and hving them both come to compromises before giving out orders.
Though merging the two does bring up a few questions in general:
1. Are we retconning things so the two were always one/how're we explaining the merge IC?
2. If we decide make them one group should those of us who had characters in both merge the characters we have unless we don't want to? I think it'd make sense since it'd be one guild, but I thought I'd ask first.
3. Piggybacking off the last question, if we do change the name of the guilds when we merge it, should we have a different name to call our characters outside of that of the guild name (I mean like having the Guild itself being called like the Kingdom and then the two classes/class that populates it) or should we refer to characters from the two guilds as 'x the mage/knight of the x Guild'?
As far as names to call the guild, I like The Kingdom as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2011 16:16:37 GMT -5
I'm playing a game right now in which mages are "guarded" by templars (or knights) for everyone's safety. The mages have always dealt with their own, and no amazingly powerful rebel mages have emerged, but I think it would be pretty safe to say that the odd one has slipped through. *coughRikkuisanecromancercough* Maybe the mages have a slight problem with the old saying, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and they need to be watched and guarded for their safety as well as the safety of others.
As for what it would look like, usually the leaders of both organizations are on par with each other, though with the guarding force's commander (that'd be Kabe) having the power of veto in a crisis. If we're gonna go with that portal idea, I reckon Kabe and Cele both need a private one in their offices. =D
Yeah, I'll stop rambling. xD
Edit: OMG RANKS! Magely ranks! There could be apprentice, acolyte, enchanter, senior enchanter ... *bounces* I like magely rank titles. =D
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Post by Tam on Jul 14, 2011 16:20:22 GMT -5
I've been a fan of "The Kingdom" since it was first brought up. Simple, elegant, gets the theme across without being either too magicky or too warlike.
As for the Colour Guard. Okay, so. How many of us actually still have characters whose colour falls under the seven-colour rainbow? xD; Am I kind of the only one who was still actively (...well) roleplaying with one of them? Because in my case, taking Tamia out of the regular organization of the Knights would sit well with me, because I've been wanting to move on to a new character for quite some time anyway. But this would essentially mean retiring those seven knights to backseat positions, or at least taking them out of the adventuring spotlight, wouldn't it? Again, that works fine for me, but I can't remember if any of the other rainbow knights are still active.
(Off the top of my head... Rider, me, don't know, Wolf, don't remember, Ikkin, Kat, right? Did any of those colours get reclaimed later on?)
For colours in general... right now, my personal vote would be to restrict the coloured mantles to the Colour Guard. It gives them more of an aura of privileged authority, and for the rest of us, we still have our cool title system to set us apart from one another (and, as a side note, speaking as someone who's held her colour for a very long time, I can assure you it gets really boring trying to coordinate your character's changing styles of armour and clothing over the years while feeling restricted by one dominant colour).
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Post by Shadaras on Jul 14, 2011 16:47:31 GMT -5
Longpost is long, but I did want to respond to everyone who's posted so far. I think it would be better if the King is head of everything, with major decisions being brought to him by the Archmage and the General but having the latter deal with the day to day affairs of running each guild. The mages could be a sub-section of the army that specialises in magic (which brings up the question; if we're part of the army, do we want ranks?) including applications of magic and research. Another name could be perhaps...Dunbarrow army (with sub-sections of Knights and Mages)? Yeah, that's my feeling. I'd like to involve the king as little as possible, save as a plot device to get roleplays moving. I wasn't suggesting that our guilds were necessarily part of the army; I was simply using that as an example for organizational structure. We might be, sure, but... I have no idea. Dunb urrow army would be... kind of a lame name, to me, and give it more of a military feel than I think is applicable to the majority of what happens in the guilds. I like The Kingdom, or just Dunburrow. I guess it could also be called the Medieval Guild, but that doesn't really lend itself to casual conversation. When I imagine the merge, I really imagine ...forgive the odd comparison, but I imagine the mages sort of like the X-Men; they help out and everything (it'd probably be a more formal arrangement between the Archmage and King), but otherwise they're at Xavier's school doing their own mutant thing. Obviously with the mages, there'd be more interactions between the two, but governing mages might be something best left to other mages =P I do like the idea of the mages and knights being a pretty mixed group of the same citizenry, but since we're presumably going to stick to guild canon, I think ICly this would make more sense as being an alliance that's just much closer than what the mages are/were trying to do with Brassport. Even if we go the separate leaders route, though, it's entirely possible the two populations can merge to just be led by the King. Mkay. The Kingdom seems to be generally accepted, and it's simple and all is good. xD That's an amazing comparison. And yeah; magicless folk would have a horrid time trying to govern those with magic. Well, since Mage Manor is in Dunburrow, we're already part of the same kingdom, and thus citizenry. Mage Manor is just sort of other, because of all the magic, I think. And yes, it's very likely we'll end up running it as a very close alliance of Mage Manor and Dunburrow's knights. I think if we merge the two, it should be one group specializing in both magic/nonmagic combat with one or two leaders who share a headquarters (possibly a combination of both?). Possibly merging the King and the Archmage into one character if we choose to go with one character or having the two be on equal power/importnce levels and hving them both come to compromises before giving out orders. Though merging the two does bring up a few questions in general: 1. Are we retconning things so the two were always one/how're we explaining the merge IC? 2. If we decide make them one group should those of us who had characters in both merge the characters we have unless we don't want to? I think it'd make sense since it'd be one guild, but I thought I'd ask first. 3. Piggybacking off the last question, if we do change the name of the guilds when we merge it, should we have a different name to call our characters outside of that of the guild name (I mean like having the Guild itself being called like the Kingdom and then the two classes/class that populates it) or should we refer to characters from the two guilds as 'x the mage/knight of the x Guild'? As far as names to call the guild, I like The Kingdom as well. 0 -- The King is Kabe (an NPC), the Archmage is Celestial, that's not going to be merged/changed. 1 -- We are not retconning. When I wrote the finale of Silverkeep, I wrote in that the Knights were sending a proposal of alliance/merging to the mages. That's the basic in-universe explanation of the merge. 2 -- That's up to you, honestly. Whatever you feel most comfortable with is good. (personally, I would suggest only having one character per roleplay, but that's just because roleplays are complicated enough as it is.) 3 -- Yes, that's likely going to be how it works. They'll all be part of the kingdom's protective force, but they will keep the title they choose, be it mage or knight. I'm playing a game right now in which mages are "guarded" by templars (or knights) for everyone's safety. The mages have always dealt with their own, and no amazingly powerful rebel mages have emerged, but I think it would be pretty safe to say that the odd one has slipped through. *coughRikkuisanecromancercough* Maybe the mages have a slight problem with the old saying, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and they need to be watched and guarded for their safety as well as the safety of others. As for what it would look like, usually the leaders of both organizations are on par with each other, though with the guarding force's commander (that'd be Kabe) having the power of veto in a crisis. If we're gonna go with that portal idea, I reckon Kabe and Cele both need a private one in their offices. =D Yeah, I'll stop rambling. xD Edit: OMG RANKS! Magely ranks! There could be apprentice, acolyte, enchanter, senior enchanter ... *bounces* I like magely rank titles. =D Dragon Age, yup. And yes -- that sort of slippage is what I imagine happened with the Sorceress in our Silverkeep roleplay, BTW. Probably not in their offices -- too many assassination possibilities that way. But yes, portals in both Castle Kestrel and the Manor that are easily accessible and well-guarded would be good. xD Mages have awesome rank-titles, yes. I've been a fan of "The Kingdom" since it was first brought up. Simple, elegant, gets the theme across without being either too magicky or too warlike. As for the Colour Guard. Okay, so. How many of us actually still have characters whose colour falls under the seven-colour rainbow? xD; Am I kind of the only one who was still actively (...well) roleplaying with one of them? Because in my case, taking Tamia out of the regular organization of the Knights would sit well with me, because I've been wanting to move on to a new character for quite some time anyway. But this would essentially mean retiring those seven knights to backseat positions, or at least taking them out of the adventuring spotlight, wouldn't it? Again, that works fine for me, but I can't remember if any of the other rainbow knights are still active. (Off the top of my head... Rider, me, don't know, Wolf, don't remember, Ikkin, Kat, right? Did any of those colours get reclaimed later on?) For colours in general... right now, my personal vote would be to restrict the coloured mantles to the Colour Guard. It gives them more of an aura of privileged authority, and for the rest of us, we still have our cool title system to set us apart from one another (and, as a side note, speaking as someone who's held her colour for a very long time, I can assure you it gets really boring trying to coordinate your character's changing styles of armour and clothing over the years while feeling restricted by one dominant colour). Alright, no dissent on The Kingdom, I think that means it wins. xD Yeah, that was kind of my thought on proposing the switch. Tamia has indeed been the only knight with one of those colours, and you had been talking about basically retiring her. So it works out. Agreed. xD So very agreed. Our knights are already special, and more of a strike-force-ish group anyway; the colour thing can be left to knights who are bodyguards and can wear ceremonial garb all the time. |
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Post by Jason on Jul 14, 2011 20:35:01 GMT -5
0 -- The King is Kabe (an NPC), the Archmage is Celestial, that's not going to be merged/changed. 1 -- We are not retconning. When I wrote the finale of Silverkeep, I wrote in that the Knights were sending a proposal of alliance/merging to the mages. That's the basic in-universe explanation of the merge. 2 -- That's up to you, honestly. Whatever you feel most comfortable with is good. (personally, I would suggest only having one character per roleplay, but that's just because roleplays are complicated enough as it is.) 3 -- Yes, that's likely going to be how it works. They'll all be part of the kingdom's protective force, but they will keep the title they choose, be it mage or knight. 0 -- Alright, thanks. Still leaves the question of who's leadership and whether the two are going to remain as two separate organizations under the same leadership or one group. I'm tossing my vote in for the latter though. 1 -- Haven't read Silverkeep so I didn't know that, thanks for clearing that up. 2 -- Thanks for clearing that up. 3 -- Or both, I think there were some characters that were both mages and knights. EDIT: As far as ranks for mages go, I think instead of normal ones there should be rankings that show "power levels" for lack of a better word. Like Tier I, Tier II, etc.? |
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Post by Omni on Jul 14, 2011 21:04:37 GMT -5
Woah. I know I haven't been the most active, but I just noticed this thread and I'd still like a say in things. Edit: OMG RANKS! Magely ranks! There could be apprentice, acolyte, enchanter, senior enchanter ... *bounces* I like magely rank titles. =D Maybe instead of outright 'ranks,' there could be classes? I'm thinking something along the idea of the 'Caster/Channeler' classes in this comic, though not quite by the same definitions. Taking about both ranks and classes, 'Apprentice' implies something close to a one-on-one relation with a master, so I don't really think that could work. 'Acolyte' might work for just-starting-out mages, maybe ones that either haven't decided on a mage-class, or don't know what class they could fit in. (These Class definitions are likely influenced by WoW, but...) 'Casters' might refer to mages that prefer to use their own energy, or that prefer to make focussed, 'single object' types of spells (e.g. a ball of fire or a lightning bolt). 'Channelers' might refer to mages that either prefer to draw energy from a source outside, or that make spells with a more continuous/streaming effect that works over a period of time (e.g. a stream of fire or a number of smaller strikes of ice). 'Enchanter' or 'Binder' strikes me as someone that tends to take energy and imbue it into things, giving them magical effects of some sort. Mages wouldn't need to be restricted to the method of one 'class' by any means, but it could help give an idea of what they specialize in. For example, my persona might primarily be considered a Channeler, with a secondary focus in Enchanting, and while she does dabble a bit an Casting, she's not that great at it and tends to do weaker spells. Also, we wouldn't need to merge characters unless it's actually the same character in both guilds. I know that this is incredibly unlikely, but if the Mages ever merged with Spacefleet, I wouldn't want my chimeric, almost-feral mage girl to merge with my amnesiac, body-focussed cyborg guy.  Also, we are allowed to have more than one character in a guild. On the topic of a guild name, I think 'Fantasy Guild' has a good sound to it, and gives a good idea of what it's about. In-character, it could be called something else. If no one likes that, I'll go with 'Kingdom.' |
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Post by Abigail on Jul 23, 2011 14:15:48 GMT -5
'Channelers' might refer to mages that either prefer to draw energy from a source outside, or that make spells with a more continuous/streaming effect that works over a period of time (e.g. a stream of fire or a number of smaller strikes of ice). Would Channelers include Necromancy and abilites like it?  |
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Post by Rikku on Jul 26, 2011 22:47:27 GMT -5
I'm ... not sure I like the idea of Magely ranks. xD; I mean, because most of the appeal of that guild is that people can have their characters have whatsoever magical powers they desire, and shoehorning them into specific categories might rather limit creativity; what if they want to give someone a really weird power, and then have the fun of trying to find ways for it to be useful/not be a massive pain? Or what if they're magic only tangentially - for example, someone cursed into the shape of an animal who hangs around with the mages in the hopes that someone can turn them back, and helps out around the place in as many ways as they can. If you were going to have ranks you'd want them to be specific enough to have some relevance but broad enough to fit in many different charactertypes, and that'd be hard. Of course you could always have mages struggling to deal with new, previously unseen types of magic, but. xD It's rather complex however you play it.
On the other hand, it could definitely use some more organisation, and expecting everyone to have thoroughly worked-out rules for how their character's magic works is only slightly less ridiculous than having thoroughly worked-out rules about how magic works that apply to everyone. >.> Ontheotherhandagain, that could be what this is about; the strict organisation (... presumably?) of the knights meeting the hithertoo mostly casual atmosphere of the mages and having to work together.
(Presumably to Heroically Fight Evil! For the Good of the Kingdom! Huzzah, hurrah! Huzzah, hurrah!)
... On the other hand again, titles are awfully fun things to have. >.> Maybe there's just - some specific way you can prove your competence, like tiers or something, yeah, and you can set about proving it in any variety of ways? Orrrr by going out and helping nonmagey warriors keep the peace of the kingdom, perhaps? =D I do rather love the idea of knightfolk perhaps guarding magic-users from themselves as well as external harm; not only does that mean there's automatically a role for them if a mage goes crazyhaywire and starts turning people into turnips, it also means that, yeah, you get all that lovely fun potential conflict of non-magic-users trying to regulate something they barely understand and which they don't have any real power to regulate, unless they do, and it's just - fun, in general. *beams*
We can have more crossover between the two now, too. <3 I mean, particularly justice-minded magic-users trying to go through knight training, a knight discovering a previously undiscovered glimmering of magic and struggling to deal with it, all that sort of thing!
Also if we're gonna have rapidquick communication and transportation between the two hubs, we'd darn best make it cool. >.> No just stepping into a pillar of happy pink sparkles and being gone instantly, mmkay? An enchanted doorway made of ancient stone carved in strange shapes that almost seem to move at the corner of your eye, or broad paintings that look into each other, or something cool like that. Seeing they're both castles, you could have ... corridors that lead to corridors in the other place, even. Which could be a lot of fun. xD
... And yep. That's me.
Er, I don't actually have any real ideas to contribute, but I'm still gonna be presumptuous enough to say - keep this thread rolling, people! xD; We're onto something interesting here, it'd be a pity to let it lapse into sleepy inactivity.
... Oh! And I support getting rid of the silly colourthings for the knights, definitely. xD Forgot to agree with that. But yeah. Definitely. When I was joining I was like 'what is this even' ... Titles are fun and everything, but. Well. Really.
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Post by Tam on Jul 26, 2011 23:07:12 GMT -5
Also if we're gonna have rapidquick communication and transportation between the two hubs, we'd darn best make it cool. >.> No just stepping into a pillar of happy pink sparkles and being gone instantly, mmkay? An enchanted doorway made of ancient stone carved in strange shapes that almost seem to move at the corner of your eye, or broad paintings that look into each other, or something cool like that. Seeing they're both castles, you could have ... corridors that lead to corridors in the other place, even. Which could be a lot of fun. xD Corridors that just inexplicably phase into corridors in the other building could be really cool. xD You could have your character go pacing through the halls all lost in thought, and then suddenly they run into a cluster of people from the other guild and are all, "Oh, um. Must have taken that wrong turn. Again. Right. Sorry. Carry on." Although I am also fond of the idea of transit via enchanted paintings. Or mirrors! Mirrors are always cool for this sort of thing. I'm going to stay out of matters that mostly concern the Mages, because I'm not really up on Magelore and the decisions made probably won't have enough of an effect on me that it would be my place to try and influence them. But. Yay for Mage ideas! |
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Post by Draco on Jul 27, 2011 2:58:53 GMT -5
I don't exactly have one of the main colors, but I liked mine  Azure is fun ^^ But really, the colors sort of restrict other nights. So if they are dropped, current and future knights could just choose what their armor and stuff looks anyhow. I'll probably just keep my color around since I don't want to edit my character's stuff much XD |
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Post by Tiger on Jul 27, 2011 8:27:14 GMT -5
I really agree with Rikku on the matter of mage ranks. Those would work great if we had even close to similar powers between the mages, but it seems like no two mages have the same abilities =P You have jellyfying Krissy, making-mist-animals Tiger, and then Celestial with relatively normal magic and the ability to turn into a dragon...
It also seems like we wouldn't really have too much use for ranks. There're very few students in the Manor, at least from what I've seen, although it'd be difficult to find mentors for all the various magics we have... (unless there's some sort of magical theory that all magic is in essence the same, but is expressed differently, but I won't get into that =P). It seems like the Manor is more of a place to gather and pool resources and find people at least somewhat like yourself, rather than a place where ranks would be necessary or perhaps even desirable. Perhaps titles that would reflect, vaguely, what sort of magic one has would be more helpful? Like...uhm. I have plenty of prefixes, but I feel like there's a suffix I just can't think of now ^^;
I also like Rikku's point that it'd be interesting to mix orderly knights and the less-organized mages.
...Yup.
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Post by Naga on Jul 27, 2011 9:42:55 GMT -5
I like that idea; chaos to order is always fun~ And for simple compassion, say the knights had nice, orderly titles dependent on rank, and then some mages come along with their awesome personalized titles, just all 'Yo~'.
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Azure is fun ^^ But really, the colors sort of restrict other nights. So if they are dropped, current and future knights could just choose what their armor and stuff looks anyhow. I'll probably just keep my color around since I don't want to edit my character's stuff much XD