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Post by A Friend on Dec 15, 2011 22:57:43 GMT -5
Dear Skype chatters,
First of all, it is probably blatantly obvious to some of you who I am. If you know, feel proud of yourself, but please don't share. Whimsical as it may be, I've posted this anonymously for a reason. :3
I have a story for you.
A bit over a week ago, my computer became infected with an ineradicable virus. Thankfully, I'm on a college campus, so my computer could be fixed for free, and my files were safe; however, all my extra programs had to be re-downloaded. For a couple of days, I had a loaner laptop from the tech people, which meant I didn't even have the option of downloading these extras. I was fine with this, although upset that I wouldn't get to talk to my NTWFer friends.
That's when it hit me that something might be wrong here.
Nowadays, as the 'bloids plod along at a page or two a day, and the Taco chat averaging only 4.5 a day this month, the social heart of the forum isn't even on the forum, it's on Skype. If I want to talk to my friends online, to see what's up, to pelt someone with a pie, or accept gifts of consolation cookies from my friends, I have to open up an entirely different program and enter a chat that I'm only in because I asked to be invited.
I felt completely out of the loop those days without Skype. In the beginning, I made a plea on the 'bloids for the Skype chatters to join me, and a few people showed up, and we had a cheerful few pages of activity. I have no idea if there were other forumers in the Skype chat also having a grand time, entirely separate from me.
I'm a very secure person on here, and I know you all are my friends. This is the kindest, most loving community I've ever found online, which is why I've stuck around for years and years. So I realized that if I was feeling isolated, what happens to the others? The insecure people, who feel like they would like to join Skype, but, well, the other people might not really like them, and they might not really want them there, so they keep quiet and keep doubting in silence? I know tons of close forum friends who have felt like that. You may be one of them.
It was intimidating enough, when I was a tentative newbie, to take my first cautious steps onto the 'bloids. If I'd needed to ask to join, and to download a completely new program onto my ailing computer, I may not have ever made that step.
I'm not saying that we abandon the Skype chat. Chat programs have always been a fun supplement to the forum, from AIM to MSN, but if they're the primary means of casual chat, it leaves a lot of people out of the loop. We've always been a welcoming community, and I'm afraid that, quite unintentionally, we've moved away from that. We're all good, friendly people, so I know we didn't do this on purpose. It just took seeing things from the other side to notice what's wrong.
Be it general 'Bloids chatter, IC chatting, or both, we should make sure we're chatting here, because this forum grows and flourishes when we extend our full, loving welcome to all who enter our site.
Thank you all for your time, and I love you. ^_^
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Post by Gav on Dec 15, 2011 23:42:21 GMT -5
One of the biggest advantages of Skype, and other IMs, is that it's, well, instant. You don't have to wait for pages to load or to navigate pages. In fact, I remember back in my day (coughhackwheezeshackwalkingcane), we lost tens of pages to Splatterboard explosions at a time. See, I'm not saying the forum is outdated. In fact, if you want to rant to multiple people or out loud it's far better to use the Banter Board. Same goes for birthday wishes, gloats, news in general like Off Topic. Because people are likely to notice things easier when it's on a forum and they don't have to be on constantly to get the 411 on the DL (hip expression totally for the kids, wassup) XD The Splatterboard might almost feel slightly archaic now. It's unfortunately a by-product of technology evolving and the forum evolving with it. It's still good for just general, random chat and meeting new people. But I'd have to say for quick chatting with people you know, Skype would be the suprerior option. eep in mind the Splatterboard isn't the only way to meet forumers. There're Diary threads, and the Times itself has always been a good place to talk to people about a common subject at least (via collabs or just reviews/advice). In fact, I remember quite a few people were intimidated by the astoundingly fast pace of the 'bloids- they just couldn't get into it.  So, at the end of the day... while I think it doesn't hurt to put more activity into the Splatterboard, I don't think the forum is any less rich or welcoming. The random, 'bloidal chat's just had an (un)fortunate change of focus. |
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Post by Robyn on Dec 16, 2011 0:09:39 GMT -5
Hi there! :3 I actually have no clue who you are, dear anon, but as one of the frequent NTWF Skype chatters, I just wanted to let you know that I'm really sorry you're feeling this way. I think I can speak for all of us when I say that by no means do we ever want anyone in this community to feel isolated or left out. In fact, when the letter was brought up in the chat, most of us were legitimately surprised and pretty upset with the thought that we'd made anyone feel excluded. We are definitely all your friends, and we definitely do love you. <3
But yes. As Gav has said, I believe a lot of us have gravitated towards Skype because of how instant and widely available it is. I understand that 'widely available' does not mean 'absolutely available all the time for everyone', but it does give the most of us a way to connect with each other in a manner that's much faster and more convenient than the bloids. Or even the forum itself, for that matter.
Don't take that as me saying Skype is inherently BETTER, though. Gosh no. After all, if it weren't for the forum itself, none of us Skypers would even be Skyping with each other! 8D Personally, I tend to try and balance my forum activity with my Skype activity. They often coincide. It's just really easy for me to be on the NTWF in Firefox and then have Skype open as well. Double the forum, double the fun, right? :3
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I personally don't think that the Skype chat is a bad thing. I can try and invest more time into the Bloids, sure, but just with how Skype fits into my schedule/mindset, I can't say I have the heart to just drop it completely. I can assure you I'll do my best to always be welcoming there, though. 8D
If I'm missing any of your points or being obtuse, please feel free to PM me about the issue. I really love the Skype chat and if there's any middle ground besides migrating completely back over to the 'bloids, then I'd love to try and work that out.
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Post by Ginz ❤ on Dec 16, 2011 0:36:56 GMT -5
I said my thoughts on Skype (ironically), because people who were online started commenting on this post. But it wouldn't feel right not to post here to share with everyone. This is mostly a direct transcript, so if something feels disconnected, I apologize, as I was following the conversation as it went, and commented on things that were said by others, too. I can clarify anything if anyone needs.
I definitely understand what you're getting at, Friend. When I was a newbie, posting on the Bloids is how I started feeling so welcome and part of the community and started making friends. It's a different medium, but it's just a possible to get that sort of closeness with people in the forum rather than in Skype, and, since every NTWFer already has access to the forum, but not all have access to Skype, it just makes sense that that's how it should be.
That said, I find Skype has a lot of advantages, too >>;; I find it really hard to get the time to be on the Bloids these days because it requires more involvement and focus. I have to keep refreshing to see if anyone posted instead of being notified by a convenient flashing orange icon. Skype allows me to multitask, and of course it'll always be more attractive if people respond to me via IM faster than they would on the Bloids, because if no one replies, eventually I move on and forget I was there at all. >>;
I personally agree with the poster's sentiment, I just think it would be too difficult for things to change at this point. Would I like for the Bloids to be more active again? Yes, most definitely! But I guess we'll have to see how things go...
Last but not least, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. <3
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Post by Stal on Dec 16, 2011 2:00:47 GMT -5
I'm not friend, and I agree with friend's sentiments. For those of us that don't use Skype regularly, it's like being pushed and excluded from the crowd.
But most of all, I'm kind of disappointed with the responses so far. Instantaneous communication and chats are not new. They're not novel. AIM and AOL had this market before the forum was even born. ICQ before that even. This forum has done AIM chats, IRC chats, java chats, MSN/Live chats...and the forum and friendship still thrived. They complemented each other.
This is the only generation of chats that has decided that it seems to have no need for the forum itself anymore. :/
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Post by Gav on Dec 16, 2011 4:34:44 GMT -5
On the contrary, I've never felt that the forum wasn't needed and I think it's unfair to assume that the other people that responded have. :/ Honestly, I'm not even one of the Skypers. To be fair, my activity hasn't been great on the forum for various reasons, but that doesn't mean I can't see it from either point of view. But I'm sure just as much as there are people who don't use Skype, there were people back then that didn't use MSN, AIM, etc. I think I understand the point that 'so if 'blodal activity could continue then despite all this, why not now?' Frankly, I'm not sure why either. I can only speak for myself and I'm not gonna generalize why the Skypers do, and I expect my reasons would be different in the first place. What I was trying to say was that the shift has changed from the Splatterboard. And even back then there was a degree of intimidation from the Splatterboard itself- I know some people felt that they couldn't keep up or be 'random' enough for it. Look at the Banter Board and Positive Spin and Dear Diary parts of the forum, I think there's a lot of friendship there. I'm still wrestling with the idea of what exactly the problem is- is there a lack of interest in some kind of all-encompassing thread like the 'Bloids was, or is it that people seem to be, for lack of a better word, cliquing on other areas like Skype? Or is it that people who, say, aren't Catholic, or LGBT, or don't have anything to rant, feel like they aren't able to talk to anybody on the forum? For better or for worse, I think I'm pretty open to discussion on how the forum could be made better and I think anyone here would be. If they exhibited a sense of exclusion, I'm sure they didn't mean it. |
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Post by Huntress on Dec 16, 2011 9:14:54 GMT -5
The 'bloids and Skype have always had entirely different aims and purposes, mind you. The bloids are slower and actually take less attention on the chatters' part. Whenever I'm on the 'bloids (um, was >>), I could do multiple things on the side and check back every now and then. On Skype, the whole thing is so fast that I need to keep up with Skype and Skype alone to be on the ball. That's why I never properly got into the skype chat in the first place. I'm the type to have a more textwally, slower conversation.
And they can function side by side no problem, I'd say. It only gets iffy when most if not all active forumers end up migrating to Skype so that the 'bloids (and the Taco to a lesser extent) end up devoid of regulars overall. So that any newbies who'd like a casual chatthread to enter and mingle with the oldies flat-out won't have anyone to mingle with. A newbie generally won't just enter a dead chatthread out of the blue, right? They need an ongoing chat to enter for that. And it may be intimidating, sure, but it's the sort of intimidation all 'bloiders once faced and overcame. With Skype, they might not even know it exists.
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Post by Crystal on Dec 16, 2011 9:42:39 GMT -5
I'm not a huge proponent of the Splatterboard. I'm not against it, but my entire generation(s?) of Bloidal friends moved on from it, and so did I. But that said, I do like the point that Anon is making; the forum is where we met, and the forum is what binds us together, so let's try to chat on the forum more often. I'm not a Skyper either, because I just kind of find it annoying. The stupid Skype window never goes away, even if I hit X. It just sits there, bleeping and flashing, making my computer slower. I have to catch up on thousands and thousands of messages whenever I sign on. It annoys me, though that's no real reflection on y'all. I'm just very particular about how my computers work. (Occasionally I go on cleaning sprees where I obsessively organize all my files and folders... but that's another story.) I'm not friend, and I agree with friend's sentiments. For those of us that don't use Skype regularly, it's like being pushed and excluded from the crowd. But most of all, I'm kind of disappointed with the responses so far. Instantaneous communication and chats are not new. They're not novel. AIM and AOL had this market before the forum was even born. ICQ before that even. This forum has done AIM chats, IRC chats, java chats, MSN/Live chats...and the forum and friendship still thrived. They complemented each other. This is the only generation of chats that has decided that it seems to have no need for the forum itself anymore. :/ The main difference between Skype chat, AIM and MSN is that you never get kicked out of the Skype chat 'group'. On AIM and MSN, you had to specifically invite people to a group, and the group lasted a few hours at most. The Skype chat group is permanent. But it wasn't like we weren't having the same problems with AIM and MSN and people feeling excluded. (I bet Stal remembers the uproar when the AIM chat decided they wanted to actually vote on who to let into Spiffwai and a couple people got denied xDD Comparative to that, the Skype chat is pretty welcoming.) It happened all the time, but not to the same extent, because like I said, the Skype chat is permanent, so AIMers and MSNers were still very active on the forum. I don't really think the forum is dying because of this. The forum's fine. The Splatterboard hasn't always been here; the Bloids have changed over the years with crackdowns on language and innuendo; the Taco is relatively new. But I do agree that it's easy for a newbie to feel excluded if they're trying to 'get involved' and to do that, have to have a Skype account and to be specifically invited to the chat. And yeah, if you want to put it that way, it's pretty cliquish. Don't feel bad about that. We've done lots of just as cliquish things in the past. |
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Post by Stal on Dec 16, 2011 9:52:33 GMT -5
Robyn, I'm not mad or upset or feel that you guys need to be forgiven or anything. I believe Friend was just trying to raise a concern and show you all how it looks from the outside, make you aware of it and see if we could do anything.
I was disappointed because the responses kind of came back and sounded almost dismissive of it. Like "Skype is better because of X and what's the problem? There's still posts to respond to in other places..."
Hunty did a great job at summarizing it. As well, the Skype chat isn't an extension of the forum in any official means. It's there, but it wasn't set up as part of the forum. It was set up to facilitate chatting (by members) and just grew. But it's still off-site, off-forum. And has become the social center, making the rest of us unable to generally socialize in casual chat way anymore.
And since Skype does take such a full focus, it kind of does prevent easier looking elsewhere, it seems.
Friend isn't saying give up Skype. Friend is asking people to be aware that it's creating a social sucking black hole that either you're in or not and of you're not you're kind of out of luck.
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Post by Sq on Dec 16, 2011 10:36:27 GMT -5
I really miss the bloids. ;_; It's just been such a huge part of the forum for so many years that I feel is now legitimately dead, and honestly, that does make me sad. I don't like skype. I don't like that some people I might want to talk to aren't on skype. On the forum, if one of my friends posts and I see that they're there, I can jump on the bloids and say hello. I never really go on skype but the times I've been there it doesn't really seem that way; at most, three or four people are talking and the rest are kind of hiding out, not saying anything... and a lot of times it's just dead and it's kind of intimidating when you see a whole list of people that are online but haven't said anything in and hour...
I don't know. I miss the bloidzzz.
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Post by Killix on Dec 16, 2011 10:58:52 GMT -5
Skype isn't the only thing that has had a hand in the demise of the 'bloids.
Really, the tragedy of the 'bloids death has been a slow and gradual story.
+ We have older members and regulars who have either left the forum, or just aren't as active as a whole. That cuts down on the amount of regulars keeping the 'bloids a float.
+ We have the newly formed Taco's dividing attention. Just about every Tacoer was a 'bloid regular. Having people posting on the Taco instead of the bloids is certainly not a bad thing, but it does cut down on the amount of regulars keeping the 'bloids activity up.
+ We have many members who aren't into the whole bloids thing in the first place.
+ And we have the 'bloids' own slow-down-to-a-crawl of activity which turns newbies off from wanting to post there. Without new blood the 'bloids stales as the previously mentioned regulars drop off the face of the forum.
--------------------------------
Back in the days of the bustling bloids, activity was so great that upon every refresh there would be at least 2 replies. It was easy to jump into because there would be more than one conversation going on at any given time.
If you weren't into the topic(s), enough different people were participating that you'd most likely find at least one other person to start a new topic with.
Nowadays the place is so dead that even if people are on there talking, the pace is so slow that you could probably make a post and then stroll to your kicthen, make a sandwich, eat it, come back... and there would still be no replies. XD
Since there's barely even one conversation going at a time, it's tough peanuts if you're not into the topic. It's rude to bust in randomly and be like "I"M HERE SO CHANGE THE TOPIC 'CAUSE I DON'T LIKE IT." if there's only two people in there talking. XD So I just don't join in if that's the case. *shrug*
My diagnosis:
It's just not a convenient place to chat anymore.
It slowly let itself sink, and now it's just stuck in a hole larger than itself and it can't climb out.
I don't want to spend time at a dead bloids refreshing for hours waiting for a reply. I know it's going to be dead, so I just don't bother. I'm sure other people don't frequent the bloids for similar reasons.
How can this be fixed?
Well, we certainly can't expect people to post in the 'bloids if they ultimately don't want to, but I think if activity picks up for long enough stretches of time, perhaps the rhythm will return.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2011 11:41:59 GMT -5
Normally I don't really post on these things, but this would actually be exactly the reason to do it. I personally think that a Skype chat or other instant moving chat is a necessity. I personally am not a big forumer. I came here after my first Storytelling win when I was invited through Neomail, and ended up mostly lurking, only posting in the Storytelling thread. As much as I've heard others talking about the other boards, it was not my thing and I never got into it. Skype chat is a completely different beast, and to a person like me, a place for me to chat just like the 'bloids would be for you guys. I may not chat much on Skype, or pop in often (that's mostly because I use a separate Skype just for NTWF), but I know it's there, I know people are generally chatting and if I want to come and lurk people talking about Final Fantasy or whatever for like two hours, that option is open.
I know you all are about saving your 'bloids and bringing activity back to the forum, but you still wouldn't get people like myself who aren't into that type of thing. I'm not saying it's a 'bloids thing or even a NTWF, I've never been a huge forum poster, even when I ran a few forums. But chat makes me happy and I can pop in and start conversations with Ginz, Robyn, Sarn, etc, and make friends with people I wouldn't make friends with on the forums because I wouldn't end up in any conversations with them here.
That's my piece. Take from it what you will.
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Post by A Friend on Dec 16, 2011 15:28:29 GMT -5
But chat makes me happy and I can pop in and start conversations with Ginz, Robyn, Sarn, etc, and make friends with people I wouldn't make friends with on the forums because I wouldn't end up in any conversations with them here. This was my point, and I'm sorry I might not have made it clear-- the 'bloids was the "pop in and chat" thread. I know a bunch of people were saying on Skype that it has brought them closer together, which is fantastic and lovely, but when the 'bloids was active, that was where a lot of people (myself included) grew to know and love everyone. Other chat programs, like MSN, definitely made me feel closer to all of you, but it was icing on the "getting to know you" cupcake, to use a really weird metaphor. This is not an issue of the forum "dying," far from it. As Gav has pointed out, there are still all the other boards to get to know people. But in olden times, if I was in the middle of a rough paper and needed a 15-minute break, I could pop into the 'bloids, go "AUUUUGH," get sympathy, cookies, friends, and a brief distraction from the boredom that is real life, and them pop out again. That is the role Skype has taken over-- the brief chatting with forumers. Because though there is still tons of activity in every other part of the forum, the Bloids and Taco are the only boards to casually talk to people about whatever takes your fancy. As Stal said, chat programs have always been a wonderful way to get to know forumers better, but for those of us who didn't (or couldn't) have MSN, AIM, etc, there was always the forum for when we wanted to have a casual conversation with our friends. Gav, that's what I see the problem is-- not that there's a lack of friendship, but that the topicless, casual socialization doesn't happen here now, and that's what made a lot of us really feel a part of this forum. And guys, I know the exclusion wasn't intentional, and I figured nobody was aware of it, that's why I posted all this in the first place. XD I <3 you guys, I know you <3 me, and none of you would want me to feel this way (unless some of you have a vendetta against me I don't know about. But. I doubt that. =D </digression>) We have always had problems with people feeling excluded from whatever the popular chat site is (including the 'bloids), and we've always worked to overcome it. Killix, that's a lot of great points. My one suggestion is that if people expect the 'bloids to be active, and so post, they will be. Take last night-- there was all the discussion on the Skype chat about this, and someone suggested, "Well, how about we all go to the 'bloids?" And we had 10 pages of conversation very quickly (with still a little bit of side chatting in the Skype chat). It's not a lack of people wanting to chat, we'd have to have the mentality "Forum chat first, Skype chat to the side." We shouldn't lose the Skype chat, just like we didn't lose AIM and MSN. Robyn, I'm advocating for a middle ground, and I'm sorry I didn't make that clearer in my original post. Also, as Crystal has said, the 'bloids has changed over the years-- we can change its image now. If people are intimidated by the randomness, we don't have to call it the place of randomness and instant weddings. We can call it what it has been for years: a place to chat. Randomness and instant weddings are awesome, in my opinion, but they didn't happen all the time, and they don't have to now. |
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Post by Huntress on Dec 16, 2011 17:23:37 GMT -5
*technically has no proper right to speak onnacounta having floated off the bloids back when it was still fairly active*
*but has this tendency to meddle in everything with textwalls all the same =D*
One point for everyone to ponder: think of all those forum friends you have. Where did you meet them? Which board did you develop your forum bonds with them on?
For me, it was mostly if not entirely the 'bloids. I've posted all over the place over the years, but I go everywhere else on business, as it were. I only reply to rants on Banter Board, only comment on the title topic in Off Topic, the guilds and Mod Squad are generally business talk. If I wanted to talk to people as people, I went to the 'bloids. (Heck, I met my boyfriend on the 'bloids, and shipperfolks haven't had a moment of rest since >>)
And these days I don't know the forumnewbies at all. I may see what you rant about and gloat about and what you don't like about Christmas and what funny pictures you recently found on the internet, but I don't know you as people. You're just names that I vaguely recognize in connection with your avatars. I don't remember people's rants and who posted the funny picture. I remember who talked to me about their evil homework or favorite video game or their cat, and whom I told about my evil homework or favorite video game or my cat.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2011 17:33:55 GMT -5
I've started spending more time on Skype than the forum. However... I still think the focus should be lessened, but for reasons not expanded upon yet here.
Fact is, since the chats are not connected to the forum and are often somewhat unmoderated, there have been accusations (true and false) of things that wouldn't normally fly on the forum. I feel like this causes a lot of tension, but people are afraid to address the elephant in the room.
That's just my two cents.
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Furgo 
Michael. 
